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Volvo 240 condenser/compressor/evaporator selection for complete rebuild of system

wrenwright on Tue March 27, 2007 9:04 PM User is offlineView users profile

Year: 82
Make: Volvo
Model: 240
Engine Size: 2.1L
Refrigerant Type: R134a

I have a 1982 Volvo 240 wagon in which I have removed the old a/c system. Everything was shot and I am looking to replace everything with new components and I have a few questions. I'm hoping that someone with experience with these cars can help me.

Firstly, I am aware that Volvo has made available a kit to convert over to 134a for these cars which includes a new evaporator that is supposed to work better with 134a than the one that came with these cars. They also include some hardware with this kit and a high pressure hose, but the kit doesn't include the other hoses which makes me wonder how they expect the old, converted system to work with the old non-barrier type hoses.

From what I have been able to gather, in 1990 Volvo went to a larger evaporator to get better performance from the a/c systems and undoubtedly saw the writing on the wall and knew that r134a was going to be a reality and that an upgrade of the evaporator would be needed.

So at this point, I'm considering what is the best course of action. I suppose that it would be possible to fit the heater/evaporator combined unit from a post-90 model car to my 240 and use the stock Volvo larger evaporator, but that sounds like an terrible amount of work and there may be fitting issues with the larger evaporator. In addition to this, the later systems used an oriface tube instead of an expansion valve, but since I'm going to be basically starting from scratch, that shouldn't pose much of a problem.

Another option is to buy the Volvo factory kit that includes the evaporator that is the same size as the old R-12 evaporator, but designed for r134a.

As far as the condenser and compressor go, I was planning on using a Seltec universal compressor and a parallel flow condenser that is the closest match to my existing tube and fin condenser.

I really would like to get some advice from someone who has done this type of complete rebuild of the Volvo system and not just an r134 conversion. Again, I'm not using any of the old components. I am sort of stabbing in the dark here with the selection of the parallel flow condenser as the Volvos that I have seen all have tube and fin condensers.

Also, how does one ensure that all of the fittings will be the same size/type on this type of conversion? I will know what the fitting on the high pressure hose that is supplied with the kit will be, but how do I ensure that I don't have issues with the rest of the components fitting?

Thanks!

bohica2xo on Wed March 28, 2007 2:22 PM User is offline

Wrenwright:

The old brick can be made to cool, but it takes a bit of doing...

Volvo did indeed produce a retrofit kit for the 200 series. It includes a better evaporator, a new TXV, a hose, a dryer & various small parts. "retrofit kit P/N 9134808-6" would be what you are looking for. The evaporator will fit your vehicle.

The reason for the evaporator is not quite as clear. Many '80's vintage european cars had weak A/C. The europeans were just discovering what americans considered proper air conditioning in a motor vehicle. In 1980, europeans thought that A/C was for long trips @ 75f ambient - to keep the windows up for driving comfort. The more effecient evaporator became reality for Volvo, and the retrofit was a good reason for the install. The old style evaporator will work just as good as it ever did with either refrigerant... That TSB came out in 1993.

There is another TSB regarding the condensor. Group 87 NO. 123, Nov 1992. It details installing an electric fan kit in front of the condensor. This install included a "T" in the lower radiator hose, and a thermal switch to run the fan. There is a long parts list, but here are the important parts:

Fan Kit 3540109-0
30A Fuse 969164-3
Fuse holder 1323312-7
Pipe 1276187-0
Thermo switch 1378504-3
Harness 3523387-3

I always added a relay to run the fan, but the OEM switch is supposed to be ok for 30A.


Volvo also enlarged the cabin blower assy. The OEM replacment requires some work for fitting...

Remove the steering wheel ( I like to remove the seat as well) You may be at this for a couple of hours.
Wearing a face shield, use a die grinder with several burrs to open things up & fit the new assembly.
Have an assistant hold the shop vac hose near the point of cutting, or you will be eating plastic bits every time you turn on the defroster...

Volvo went to a better evaporator & blower to fix the poor cooling issues. The parts are there, but it takes some labor to put them in.


Your plan for the condensor sounds good to me. That is where the big gains are to be made. Fit the largest condensor that you can, and be sure the airflow is directed over it.

The evaporator kit is an easy install, and worth finding the parts. You REALLY want to keep the TXV style system.

A pusher fan is a great thing too. You can use the OEM unit, or aftermarket. Again, fit the largest one you can.

The Seltec compressor is a fine pump, and there are brackets available to drop it in your old York mount.


Now, about the fittings...
Like any plumbing project, a custom A/C install usually results in at least one un-planned trip to the store.
Custom hoses will be what you wind up with. Tim can supply the fittings for each component, and a length of hose. Once you have the components in place, you can put the fittings on, and plan the hose routing. Push the hose into the un-crimped fitting. Once you have the hoses where you want them, mark each fitting / hose with a paint stripe for clocking, and remove the hose "assembly" fittings & all. The hoses can then be crimped, making sure the paint stripes line up. You should be able to find a hose company locally to crimp the ends - but if you can't, they can be shipped to Tim for crimping, ot you could buy a crimping tool.


Good luck with your brick project.


B.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

wrenwright on Wed March 28, 2007 2:58 PM User is offlineView users profile

Bohica,

If it were you, would you go to the trouble of fitting a post-'90 heater/ac box with the resulting larger evaporator, or would you keep the existing evaporator box and use the improved Volvo evaporator for the pre-90 cars, or would you stick with the stock non-improved evaporator? I am leaning towards getting the improved evap. that Volvo offered for the older cars if it will work well.

Again, I want to use r134a.

Naturally, I'm going to be adding the largest pusher fan that I can. This car has been converted over to an e-fan for regular engine cooling, but it has been wired to come on with the flip of a switch in addition to coming on when the thermo-probe indicates that the engine is getting warm. I was going to keep the original mechanical fan, but it just sucks power all of the time and the car sounded like a UPS truck when I was driving it. I've got a 70A alternator and the existing cooling fan is only pulling 13A, so I think the addition of another fan would not tax the system. I would most likely add a cutoff switch for the pusher fan so that I could turn it off for freeway travel....actually, I would probably wire both of the fans into the same switch so that they both would be running when the a/c was on by default and the thermo-probe would still activate the puller fan for driving in traffic when the a/c was not engaged.

How does one determine exactly how much r134a to put into the system when the amount cannot be obtained from a manual due to a non-stock condenser?

Thanks!

bohica2xo on Wed March 28, 2007 3:30 PM User is offline

Wrenwright:

I would install the upgraded evaporator that fits the vehicle, as sold in P/N 9134808-6. The install is simple, just an R&R. It is worth the added capacity.

If you switch to only electric fans, it is important that they run when the compressor is running - regardless of engine temperature or speed. It is quite possible in a warm climate to run the head pressures through the roof long before the engine warms up. Manually switched fans sound like a good idea, but forgetting just once can lead to high head pressures. If you install the mandated HPCO, it will begin "cycling" on that...

Running the fan at highway speed is no big deal. My '88 900SPG runs both fans whenever the A/C is on, right from the factory. With 200k+ on them in Las Vegas they still run just fine.

I would run the pusher fan on a relay wired to the compressor clutch, and forget about it.


Charge level.
This is where a sightglass is priceless. Without a sightglass, you will need to estimate the starting charge, and watch for the "plateau" when charging. Once you have found the correct charge, you can record it for future use. Charging this way is not hard, but must be done slowly. It only works on TXV systems where you "store" excess refrigerant in the receiver/dryer.

The inital oil charge will be different too. Not so much because of the condensor, but the compressor change. I would use the oil charge figure for a later model, with the axial piston compressor. Add no more than 1.5 additional ounces for the larger condensor - an ounce is more like it.


B.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

Edited: Wed March 28, 2007 at 10:08 PM by bohica2xo

wrenwright on Wed March 28, 2007 5:09 PM User is offlineView users profile

"I would install the upgraded condensor that fits the vehicle, as sold in P/N 9134808-6. The install is simple, just an R&R. It is worth the added capacity."

So that is the condensor that Volvo upgraded to at some point? You would recommend the Volvo upgrade over a parallel-flow condenser from AMA?




"If you switch to only electric fans, it is important that they run when the compressor is running - regardless of engine temperature or speed. It is quite possible in a warm climate to run the head pressures through the roof long before the engine warms up. Manually switched fans sound like a good idea, but forgetting just once can lead to high head pressures. If you install the mandated HPCO, it will begin "cycling" on that..."

I didn't consider that, but it would be easy to rig up the fans to run all of the time when the a/c is on. In fact, there is a wire that allows one to use the fan control in this manner as well as being setup with a relay that can handle two fans.





"Charge level.

This is where a sightglass is priceless. Without a sightglass, you will need to estimate the starting charge, and watch for the "plateau" when charging. Once you have found the correct charge, you can record it for future use. Charging this way is not hard, but must be done slowly. It only works on TXV systems where you "store" excess refrigerant in the receiver/dryer.



The inital oil charge will be different too. Not so much because of the condensor, but the compressor change. I would use the oil charge figure for a later model, with the axial piston compressor. Add no more than 1.5 additional ounces for the larger condensor - an ounce is more like it."


Where can I get some more information on this subject of using the sight glass in order to charge the system?





bohica2xo on Wed March 28, 2007 10:13 PM User is offline

Wrenwright:

Sorry about the typo - I meant "evaporator", and somehow typed condensor - I was on my way out the door. Yes, the PF condensor is what you want.


If you have a sightglass, then you are good to go. If you have a PF condensor, and 2 fans you should be able to simply charge until the bubbles stop. Adding an ounce or two past the clearing of the sightglass should see a negligable change in high side pressures - this is the "plateau" where excess refrigerant begins to stay in the receiver.

B.

.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

wrenwright on Wed March 28, 2007 10:41 PM User is offlineView users profile

Bohica,

Can you make a recommendation as to a gauge set that has a sight glass? I looked on the AMA site and didn't come across any.

TRB on Wed March 28, 2007 10:55 PM User is offlineView users profile

I don't like aluminum body gauge sets. But if you want a set with a sight glass. We can order in any Mastercool Gauge Set.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

wrenwright on Wed March 28, 2007 10:59 PM User is offlineView users profile

Tim,
Since you don't like the aluminum body sight glass manifold sets, how does one know when the system is charged all the way if the bubbles can't be observed?

Thanks!

TRB on Wed March 28, 2007 11:07 PM User is offlineView users profile

Try to get as close to the factory capacity watching vent temps and pressures. Just seen to many gauge set leaks with aluminum body sets. This is with all brands not one specific brand or model. Only brought this up after reading we did not list them on our site. I prefer the brass models and that is why I stock and sale that model. But again if you want a certain set I can purchase any Mastercool item.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

wrenwright on Wed March 28, 2007 11:10 PM User is offlineView users profile

How does one know the factory capacity if one isn't using an exact factory system? In my case, I would probably be using the improved Volvo evaporator along with a parallel flow condenser and a Seltec compressor from AMA.

Where can I get some detailed information about installing this type of system in my Volvo?

TRB on Wed March 28, 2007 11:16 PM User is offlineView users profile

Unless you double the size of the evaporator the OEM capacities are still going to be close. You state this is an OT system. Inlet and out pipes on the evap being a similar temp is a good sigh your system is close to the proper charge.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

wrenwright on Thu March 29, 2007 12:41 AM User is offlineView users profile

Tim, forgive the dumb question, but what does OT mean?

bohica2xo on Thu March 29, 2007 12:57 AM User is offline

Wrenwright:

By sightglass, I mean the sightglass installed on the system high side - NOT that useless window on some gauge sets!

Tim:
The factory arrangement on that car is a TXV. He was commneting that later volvos used an orfice tube (OT).


B.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

wrenwright on Thu March 29, 2007 1:11 AM User is offlineView users profile

Bohica,

Thanks for clarifying that point. I've read about using the sight glass in the system to tell what is going on.
Any yes, I would be using an expansion valve instead of the orifice tube.

Wren

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