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Compressor noise / replacement issues Pages: 12

lght1 on Tue July 08, 2008 5:31 PM User is offline

Year: 1999
Make: Buick
Model: Regal
Engine Size: 3800 SII
Refrigerant Type: R134a
Country of Origin: United States

Hi

My new "off shore" compressor (V5?) is now rapping badly..sounds like many little hammers hitting a steel drum, although it still cools well. I haven't been using it because I don't want it to seize until the car gets to the shop next week.


After 3 "off shore" remanned and 1 new build ( all by same manufacturer) compressors inside of 13 months, I, in desperation am turning to a used AC Delco. This compressor was late model, low mileage - known good and running to spec when pulled from the donor car. The source is very reputable and I have done business with them many times to complete satisfaction.

My questions are as follows:

1. How much oil to install in this compressor if the only things being changed are the muffler lines, accumulator and orifice tube? The shop will be adding the inline filter from ackits.

2. While replacing the compressor, I elect to replace the muffler line, condenser, accumalator and O.T. and then flush the evaporator and suction line, how much oil ?

3. After replacing the muffler line, can live flushing using a inline filter that features a sight glass and cleanable filter get me by ?

In either case, I am going to install the filter.

-------------------------
1999 Regal LS
ZZP 2.5" DP, Ubend Delete
GTP duals
12" Brake upgrade
GMPP Handling Pkg

Chick on Tue July 08, 2008 8:02 PM User is offlineView users profile

System uses 9 ounces of PAG 150 for a clean system, drain the oil of of the old compressor, add about three to four ounces in to the "drain plug" on the side of the compressor, rest into the accumulator and condenser..Be sure to pull a good vacuum and recharge to factory specs.. Should be fine..

-------------------------
Chick
Email: Chick

---------------------------------------------

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

lght1 on Tue July 08, 2008 8:15 PM User is offline

Hi

First off..thanks for responding. :-)


The shop seems to feel that I can reuse the existing condenser and install a filter. SHould I go this route with the compressor rapping?

-------------------------
1999 Regal LS
ZZP 2.5" DP, Ubend Delete
GTP duals
12" Brake upgrade
GMPP Handling Pkg

Chick on Tue July 08, 2008 9:17 PM User is offlineView users profile

I can't say without seeing the debris found, but after three failures, the first thing I'd change would be the condenser..Just my opinion though...

-------------------------
Chick
Email: Chick

---------------------------------------------

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

TRB on Tue July 08, 2008 9:24 PM User is offlineView users profile

Four failures is going to be more a user issue then a off shore issue. Someone is not doing the job correctly in my opinion.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

lght1 on Tue July 08, 2008 9:31 PM User is offline

Hi

The first two were clutch issues. The 3rd and current one sounds internal.

-------------------------
1999 Regal LS
ZZP 2.5" DP, Ubend Delete
GTP duals
12" Brake upgrade
GMPP Handling Pkg

HECAT on Wed July 09, 2008 1:33 PM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: lght1


After 3 "off shore" remanned and 1 new build ( all by same manufacturer) compressors inside of 13 months, I, in desperation am turning to a used AC Delco.

can live flushing using a inline filter that features a sight glass and cleanable filter get me by ?


Lets see, do we want to put the filter after the compressor so all the junk in the system passes through the compressor before it clogs the screen; or do we want to put the filter before the compressor so it clogs and starves the compressor. Either way "line flushing" with a filter is a joke. No disrespect to you or a tech recommending, but until you do this right you will continue changing compressors.
Remember, the orifice tube has a screen and if filters could do it, there would never be a need to flush. Filters are excellent as insurance for catching one rogue piece of debris, but they do not replace flushing. How much oil to add, how much has been added, how much was in there before? This is why effective flushing must be done. If your shop has effective power flushing equipment to clean the condenser, you may be OK, if they do not and want to reuse the condenser and install a filter; you are at the wrong shop. Just my opinion.






-------------------------


HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

lght1 on Wed July 09, 2008 1:46 PM User is offline

Hi

I just placed an order for a new condenser, accumulator, and OT.
We will flush the hard lines, and evaporator. The muffler and associated lines will be replaced .

We will install the GM filter after the new condenser with the new OT enclosed after the filter element.

What is a good flush solvent to use? We only have shop air.

-------------------------
1999 Regal LS
ZZP 2.5" DP, Ubend Delete
GTP duals
12" Brake upgrade
GMPP Handling Pkg

HECAT on Wed July 09, 2008 2:47 PM User is offline

Sounds like you are on the right track. Use the factory O-tube in the factory location and do not use the O-tube that comes with the GM filter. Just use it as filter, as the O-tube that comes with it is only for use when factory location is damaged.

ACkits sells the HECAT Safe-Flush. Make sure you use only a flushing chemical that is 100% volatile, which means it will evaporate. Stay away from oil based flushes as they do not come out with the air blow. Make sure you use dry filtered air and blow for 20 or 30 minutes. Blow, blow, blow, and blow more; you can't blow too much, only not enough. Use the air "pop" method to confirm it is all gone before you begin to reassemble. Now you will know everything is clean and dry and you can add the proper amount of fresh oil, I believe Chick stated 9 ounces.

-------------------------



HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 


Edited: Wed July 09, 2008 at 2:52 PM by HECAT

TRB on Wed July 09, 2008 2:54 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: HECAT
ACkits sells the HECAT Safe-Flush.

Did not see an oder for a Buick Regal today. Must have purchased elsewhere Karl. But we still have the number one flushing agent available if needed.

-------------------------
When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

HECAT on Wed July 09, 2008 3:01 PM User is offline

Well I am glad we can help the poster. Probably paid too much if he did not buy his parts from you.

-------------------------



HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

TRB on Wed July 09, 2008 3:07 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: HECAT
Well I am glad we can help the poster. Probably paid too much if he did not buy his parts from you.

That may not be the case as we are not the cheapest online vendor on the internet. But I know the import stuff we have been selling has not had the failure rate mentioned in this post!



-------------------------
When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

HECAT on Wed July 09, 2008 3:28 PM User is offline

Not claiming you to have the cheapest prices; but with ACkits, you get what you pay for.

In this case, its not the price of one, its the price of 4 in 13 months.

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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

lght1 on Wed July 09, 2008 4:47 PM User is offline

Hi

This car is a bit of a performance toy as well as d/d. Its not so much the cost in $$ to swap out compressors ( top swaps and performance trannys cost way more) but rather the time and major inconvenience of having this thing go down just as the heat arrives and taking me away from doing suspension and other performance oriented mods I prefer doing . :-)

Given what I have learned from this thread and other online research, flushing is prob a major time and $$ saver in the long run whenever a compressor goes down due to internal issues.

FTR, one of the "imported" compressors had a bad clutch so it in no way contributed to the flush necessity.

BTW, I ordered the stuff from a vender where members of a regal / pontiac board I belong to can get a discount.

Thanks for the help. Much appreciated. :-)

-------------------------
1999 Regal LS
ZZP 2.5" DP, Ubend Delete
GTP duals
12" Brake upgrade
GMPP Handling Pkg

Edited: Wed July 09, 2008 at 4:48 PM by lght1

HECAT on Wed July 09, 2008 5:04 PM User is offline

Yes, I did notice the specs in your signature. I never have enough time or money to keep up with all my toy's needs, but I enjoy the trying. Tried putting new set of wheels and big tires on one last night and they do not fit, aaarg! Tonight I will see if a big hammer to the inner fender is the answer.

Good luck with the repair, glad we could help a little; and let us know how it all works out.

-------------------------



HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

lght1 on Wed July 09, 2008 5:09 PM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: HECAT
Yes, I did notice the specs in your signature. I never have enough time or money to keep up with all my toy's needs, but I enjoy the trying. Tried putting new set of wheels and big tires on one last night and they do not fit, aaarg! Tonight I will see if a big hammer to the inner fender is the answer.



Good luck with the repair, glad we could help a little; and let us know how it all works out.

Hi


I just checked your prices and even with the discount, you would have been a bit less. I will recommend you to my friends, and heaven forbid, if I need to do anything like this again, I would prob get the DIY kit. Looks comprehensive and a sensible purchase.

Depending on what vehicle you have, have you considered rolling the fenders ?

-------------------------
1999 Regal LS
ZZP 2.5" DP, Ubend Delete
GTP duals
12" Brake upgrade
GMPP Handling Pkg

HECAT on Thu July 10, 2008 8:49 AM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: lght1


I just checked your prices and even with the discount, you would have been a bit less. I will recommend you to my friends, and heaven forbid, if I need to do anything like this again, I would prob get the DIY kit. Looks comprehensive and a sensible purchase.

Depending on what vehicle you have, have you considered rolling the fenders ?


They are not "my" prices, but I am glad you checked and found them to be competitive. Plus you can get all the advice you need right here on the forum provided by ACkits.

Rolling the outer fender lip is not the issue with my install, I have clearance there; it is more to do with back spacing and how tight the tires are to the frame, inner fenders, and even the exhaust tailpipes. Trying the biggest (tall & fat) tire possible while keeping the stock aluminum wheels on my 87 Monte Carlo SS Aerocoupe. I looked closer at it last night and I can live with the clearances to the frame and exhaust and was able to massage the lip of the inner fender enough to gain the comfort I need. Now, how will all this measure up with the wife and three sons in the back? We shall see. Maybe it will be a good reason to tell them they cannot ride in "MY" car. LOL





-------------------------


HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

lght1 on Thu July 10, 2008 12:32 PM User is offline

Hi

The MC Aero was a rare bird.
IIRC, the 80s rwd had the 305 5.0 4bbl V8 did it not ?

-------------------------
1999 Regal LS
ZZP 2.5" DP, Ubend Delete
GTP duals
12" Brake upgrade
GMPP Handling Pkg

HECAT on Thu July 10, 2008 3:27 PM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: lght1
Hi



The MC Aero was a rare bird.

IIRC, the 80s rwd had the 305 5.0 4bbl V8 did it not ?

Only 6252 ever made (86 & 87 only), with the 200 made in 86 the real rare ones. Yes, 305 4bbl with 700R4 and 4:11 gears. I still have the stock motor, but mine now has an old 67 327 "fuelie" with steel crank, all roller.



-------------------------


HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

lght1 on Thu July 10, 2008 11:47 PM User is offline

Hi

Nice..but why the 327?

Did you already have the block? I would prob have gone the route of the 350 (5.7). Performance parts availability and all...

-------------------------
1999 Regal LS
ZZP 2.5" DP, Ubend Delete
GTP duals
12" Brake upgrade
GMPP Handling Pkg

HECAT on Fri July 11, 2008 11:47 AM User is offline

Yeah, it an old drag racer thing that shows my age. I have stash of 5 of these old blocks. Many of the 350 or generic small block performance parts to fit on these motors too. "Small" journal 2 bolt blocks and crankshafts offer less rotating mass (early pro stock theory, see engine building books by Bill "Grumby" Jenkins). When you can find a steel crank and splay the mains to be 4 bolt, you can rev quickly and really turn some high RPM's and keep the bottom end all together. On hard runs such as at the drag strip I will shift at 9500; the hardest part is keeping the valve train together even with molys, studs, girdles, guides, and all the good trick roller stuff.

-------------------------



HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

lght1 on Fri July 11, 2008 4:11 PM User is offline

Hi

Impressive technology for us in the pushrod crowd.

I believe the 350 evolved from the older 327 block if I recall...

-------------------------
1999 Regal LS
ZZP 2.5" DP, Ubend Delete
GTP duals
12" Brake upgrade
GMPP Handling Pkg

Chick on Fri July 11, 2008 6:43 PM User is offlineView users profile

which evolved from the 283, which evolved from the 265... but the new 350's share little with the older boys other than being called a small block..No more distributors in the rear of the engine, now an "opti spark" driven from the front of the engine, now beltless gear driven water pumps, they just look a little like the old ones..

-------------------------
Chick
Email: Chick

---------------------------------------------

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

iceman2555 on Fri July 11, 2008 6:56 PM User is offlineView users profile

MMMM...lets see...a 'used' Delco...against 'off shore' aftermarket......but then....guess where the 'used Delco' was made......more than likely 'over there-----somewhere'.
But the issue is noise and compressor failures....was it two...three...can not remember...but what the heck....most of the issues with these compressors may be traced back to possible 'installer' issues.
The 'V series' has some very unique and quite demanding lubrication issues. Possible damage may occur at start up when the system has not been fully charged prior to clutch engagement. Heck the simply method of adding lube to this compressor is different. Simply adding to the 'rear' ports may not be sufficient for proper lubrication. See the 'plug' in the side....put it there.....and then the system must be fully and properly charged. Undercharged system will result in a loss of lubricant to the major bearing surfaces.....thus a possible increase in internal friction.....possible result.....lock up...serious internal damage.....burned clutches.......
Restrictions within the system may result in a reduction or loose of refrigerant flow....and this is the only carrier for lubricant for this compressor.....this is a major cause of 'V' series failures.
All in all...the name is not going to 'cure' the problem.....'DO IT ALL !!!....DO IT RIGHT !!!....DO IT ONCE !!!
No short cuts.....Good luck!!!

-------------------------
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

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