Was the system ever flushed to remove the original oilr?

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Could be too much oil or bad expansion device. But since you swapped compressors and added back 8 ounces I would be concerned with too much oil. Flushing is not just for debris removal. It's the proper way in my opinion to get a system filled to the proper specifications. It's not like a/c system have a dip stick we can use to check the oil level!

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com Contact: Arizona Mobile Air

brought the car down to the ice cold air place and then don't even know whats wrong.. I guess that makes me feel a little better about myself. Guy says he has never seen an electric orifice valve before like the one I have...great.. I have something that sounds like I'm going to have to get the dealer involved to troubleshoot..

Once again, at idle, 88 degrees outside, low side around 60, high side around 220, raise the idle, low side still around 60, high side at 250. Let off the gas and the high side comes back down..low side stays the same??

Confused.

Turning these compressors by hand may not produce the expected pressure one would expect. They must be rotated very fast to produce pressures. This vehicle uses the MSC105CVSG1 type compressor. When this compressor fails...it produces a vast amount of debris within the system. The statement that there was no lube in the compressor is cause for concern, this is normally the result of operation of an undercharged (leaking) system. This condition is also a cause of the debris within the system.
The probable problem with this vehicle is that the condenser of this vehicle is restricted. This is not an uncommon problem with failures of this type compressor and the newer more efficient PFHE condenser. Unfortunately, this condenser is not going to flush clean, at least, not without the use of specialized equipment. Check with Hecat..he has a flush machine that will do wonders. However, if the condenser can not be flushed it should be replaced. The low or acceptable high side pressures and the higher low side pressures are indicative of a restricted condenser. This is, of course, assuming that the system is fully charged. How was the system charged...with the proper recharge equipment or some other method?
One test would be to bring the vehicle up to N.O.T, allow the system to operate for app 5-7 minutes (to stabilize the system). Using a temp probe/laser temp gun (ugh) measure the inlet and outlet temps of the condenser....post the results. It is better to use some type of contact temp probe...they simply work better.
All in all, we are seeing more problems such as yours this year...and the majority can be traced back to condenser restrictions.
Good luck!!!!

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Thomas Jefferson

This does not seem to be a compressor failure (metallic debris) as the original compressor was running and little debris was seen in the screen. However, the condenser is a primary filter and then the filter/dryer, which will usually not allow much debris through to the TXV screen; many manufacturers do not even use a screen at the TXV. This can produce a deceiving assumption from the condition of the screen. A simple test would be a quick back blow air shot ("Pop") to the condenser into a clean rag, this would present evidence of metal (if it exists) and the need for a good flush (thanks Iceman-checks in the mail) or condenser replacement.

The original oil charge (or most of it) was still in the system even though the compressor did not still retain much. Many compressor won't depending on the final operation of the system before recovery. A little may have leaked from the shaft seal (mud trace) and a little may have come out with recovery; but the rest of it was still in there. Where could it go? It does not evaporate or become consumed by the system. Then another system oil charge was added and it is definitely now oil overcharged which alone can produce the higher low side pressure readings and increased vent temps. I don't think it can be ruled out that although the symptoms are similar; the problem or cause may now be different.

The port locations is usually not an issue as the high side and low side are separated at 2 points, the compressor and the orifice and basically the pressures can be read anywhere on the high or low side between those points. However, with this port configuration there may be higher head pressures (indicating condenser restriction) than are being seen due to the reading of the high pressure after the condenser; and the higher low pressure readings seem plausible when considering this reading is being taken on the inlet side of the evaporator (?).

The concerns about flushing properly are valid; if you don't do it properly, it won't work. Unsatisfactory results breed the "it can't be done" talk. That spray can label said it was good stuff; should we expect them to print the inadequacies of their product on the label? Its not about the component design its about doing something that will work on that particular component design. Ignoring the need or just skipping over that part of the process is not the answer either. I think of it this way: If engine oil was difficult to remove and required special equipment; would we seek out a pro with such equipment, purchase it ourselves to DIY, replace the engine, or just skip it and add some fresh oil


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FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

thanks Everyone for your help. To answer some of your questions....

The orifice valve is working electrically..when the car is at idle and I unplug the orifice, I can fell the solenoid click and I can also see a increase in pressure. WhenI plug it back in, I feel anpother click and then the pressure drops.

My questions was when the solenoid is in the closed position, is it closing all the way?? And if not, is that enought to flood the evaparator.

I did not know that a clogged condensor would cause this condition. if anything, I thought a clogged condensor would cause a high pressure on the high side( due to the restrictions) and a low pressure on the low side (due to the lack of refrigirant)

The system was vacummed with a 2cfg pump for 2 hours. Then I added 1 12oz can with the car off. Then started the car and added the other 2 cans, tap in the up position to keep liquid from entering the system

thanks again for everyones input. I think the location of the low side and high side service ports has helped me mis-diagnose this issue. I guess I may have replaced the compressor and that wasn't necessary, but then again I did see a mud like color on the front of the compressor, so it looks like it was leaking oil and refrigirant.

My wife says it's time to take it to the mechanic.

I think you guys are right in that the condensor is probably the issue. From what I'm hearing, the condesnor is restricted, but not all the way, so all the heat is not being removed from the refrigirant, causing the pressures to be high and because my high side service port is after the condensor, I may not being getting a true representation of what really is going on on the high side.

I promise that once this is fixed, I will let everyone know what corrected the issue.

Joe.

Thanks Joe. Those are all good things that I need to check.

I do remember racing the engine and hearing the orifice valve "click" and then the low side pressure would rise even more and the high side pressure would still raise, but not as fast. Then If I let off the gas, the orifice clicks again and I see the pressure drop instantly by about 5 psi, as it starts to come back up a little, on the low side.

today the mechanic said that he pinched the heater core hose and was able to get the air to come out at 42 degrees, center vent. I didn't think this was the issue because I checked the temperature doors before I brought the car in, but I figured he is probaby right

Well, that did not seem to help. I brought the car home, pinched off the heater hose and that did not change anything, except cause my temparature gauge to show the car is overheating....besides if this was the cause, wouldn't the air come out nice and cold in the morning, when the temparature out side is warm and the engine is completely cold?

This more and more looks like it's pointing to the condensor. I mean there aren't to many parts left. I replaced the compressor, i replaced the accumalator, I replaced the orifice valve screen..that leaves the condensor, the evaparator and the orifice valve.

By the way, it seems like ACKITS does not sell anything for my car? Is that right?

Joe.

Edited: Wed July 15, 2009 at 9:17 PM by slantdawg

this is TOTALLY not making sense to me...

i tried misting the condensor and this seems to lower the high side pressure, from 200 to 150(this is pressure after the condensor) but does nothing for the low side, which stays around 55 psi at idle. I raise the idle to about 1300 rpm's and I get the low side down to 50 while misting the condensor. The strange thing is when we mist or soak the condensor, it brings the temparature at the outlet up about 5-7 degrees..this makes no sense to me. When I stop spraying, the temparature at the vent goes back down???I saw it my self..about 64 degrees at vent with car at 1300rpm's, 70 degrees at vent while spraying the condensor...low side pressure will never come down past 50...high side is about 150 to 250..the whole time the lines are sweating..

I even thoguht, OH could it be the haeater core..so I pinched the lines for about 1 minute..no difference in the temparature...anyone live in the St. Petesburg, Florida area want to come fix this??

Oh and I almost forgot..no matter what, ever since I got the car and the air has worked Ok, until now, the drive side air has always been warmer then the passanger.. I was told this meant the car was low on refrigirant, but I'm not thinking that the case at the moment.


Edited: Thu July 16, 2009 at 8:19 PM by slantdawg

todays update is a little bit brighter..

The night before last, I added some freon back into the system, because I took some out after replacing the compressor, because of the low side pressure being high. I had my wife in the car, with the thermometer in the center vent. I SLOWLY added a little freon at a time, waited a couple minutes and then asked for a reading. I also would feel the pipes under the hood to see how they feel. Eventually I was at a point where adding more freon did not change the temperature, so I stopped adding freon. Temp was about 60 with fan on high.

We brought the car to another mechanic yesterday. He charged $16 to do a diagnosis which I thought was well worth it. He says the low side is at 60 and the high side is at 200. He says "your recirculate door is not working" When I heard this, a bell rang in my head. Everytime I hit that recirculate button, I never heard any louder noises nor did the air come out colder or faster. How come I dismissed this door as working? Did I think her car was special and would not make a "louder fan noise" when switching between modes? He says the low side is high because I'm trying to cool off the hot, outside air.

So I removed the glove box and sure enough the door was in the "fresh air mode" The motor may have burned up (uses electric, not vacuum). I removed the motor, closed the door and then put the motor back, so now it recirculates. I didn't think this would make that much of a difference, but I guess if you keep recooling the air, it's going to be easier then cooling the air under the hood. Last night we took a drive and with the air on full blast, we got down to 44 degrees.

Today, was the true test, (93 outside) ... it cools of the car, but it akes a while for the temperature to come down at vent (5-10 minutes)..much better though. My condenser may still need to be replaced....once the car is cool though, it works good (I need to lower the fan)..with the fan on medium driving down the road, I'm about 40 at passenger vent and 44 at driver vent.

One question..If the drive side vent is 4 degrees warmer then the passenger side, does this mean I'm low on refrigerant or is this happening because of the refrigerant grabbing heat as it flows through the evaporator?

So the wife is happy at the moment, so I gues I'm happy..

I would like to thank everyone for there help troubleshooting this issue

Joe.