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Condensor Flushable?? Pages: 12

caveeagle on Sat July 16, 2011 6:51 PM User is offline

Year: 2000
Make: Chevy
Model: Express Van
Engine Size: 4.3
Refrigerant Type: R134a
Country of Origin: United States

Can anyone tell me if the factory Condensor can be flushed on my 2000 chevy van?

I have found conflicting information on the web. How can I tell?

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bohica2xo on Sat July 16, 2011 7:59 PM User is offline

Your OEM part is a Serpentine unit. Basically it is the primary filter for the system. Consider it a $137 filter with an 11 year life. Replace it.

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"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

caveeagle on Sat July 16, 2011 9:13 PM User is offline

How does it act as a filter? I thought that a condenser was just a heat exchanger?

Also, one of the hoses going to the compressor has a type of canister inline. What is the purpose of that?

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mk378 on Sat July 16, 2011 9:31 PM User is offline

The condenser has internal baffles to make the path very convoluted inside. The purpose is to force the refrigerant to touch metal as it passes through, so it can lose heat to the metal and condense. The intention was not to build a filter, but the tiny passages will trap debris which is then very hard to remove.

Lines with a muffler in them have to be replaced if they are dirty. Attempting to flush a muffler just leads to getting solvent trapped inside.

Edited: Sat July 16, 2011 at 9:32 PM by mk378

bohica2xo on Sun July 17, 2011 2:50 AM User is offline

This is the same van with the aftermarket rear A/C, that "might" have had some sealer injected, "has had a slow leak for some time"... and locked up a compressor so bad it stalled the engine? Same van?

Yeah, sure just blow some air through the condensor, it is probably good to go. Of the 20 or so passages in that serpentine, at least 5 of them are probably clear enough to pass some refrigerant. They are only about .060 in diameter, and about 25 feet long. Each one of them. So, as long as the compressor only shed metal smaller than .060, and none of that sealant took hold in any of the tubes, you are in fine shape...

Seriously, how many times did you top up the "slow leak" before the compressor ground to a stop?

I know you want to hear this is a 2 hour / 300 buck job. Just not the case here. Any "cans" or mufflers in the lines have to go. All of the components need to be disconnected, and the lines flushed. Hopefully both evaporators are not full of hardened sealer.

New compressor
New condensor
New fan clutch
New dryer
New Orifice tube
New TXV
New hose set to replace inline muffler

Think hard about the sealer the "might" have entered the system. How much did you pay for it? Six bucks a can - or 20 bucks a can? Remember a brand or name? Some sealers harden like concrete, and can scrap every component in the system. Others are really just seal softeners & slimy snot that can be flushed back out...

B.

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"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

caveeagle on Sun July 17, 2011 5:47 AM User is offline

Hey bohica2xo, I hope that is just mild sarcasm in your comment, and you are not trying to be a jerk. I am here trying to learn the proper way to correctly fix this system and improve my knowledge of auto ac systems. There is a lot of misinformation out there and I thought a forum like this would be the best way get educated.

I am an experienced DIY mechanic and have been working on my own cars for 24 years. I have restored 2 classic mustangs, completely rebuilt 5 engines, and even taught myself to rebuild a ford differential. I have also done several motor swaps and countless minor repairs to other cars. Unfortunately, when I have sought the help of a professional mechanic, I often waste time and money and end up redoing the work myself.

I am trying to save money where possible, but I never said I was looking for a $300 "cheap" fix. I am perfectly willing to replace the condenser, XV and any hoses needed to get this fixed properly. I just don't want to waste money replacing parts just for fun. {rant off}

I took the van to a local shop 4 years ago when it started to 'fade'. The mechanic evacuated the system and said it held a vac fine and he could not find a leak. He recharged the system and it ran fine for about another year or so. When is started to fade again, I purchased a set of gauges, a UV light, vac pump and a elec leak detector from HF. I was prepared at that point to go deep on a perm fix. It held vacuum fine for over and hour, so I recharged the system, and added one of those cans with dye to help check for leaks. I don't remember what brand or type of dye that was. I was not aware of the problems sealant cause, so it 'might' have included a sealant. 'just being honest, I don't remember..., It may, or may not have sealant in there. Before the compressor crashed, the system cooled just fine when full of refrigerant. So I feel pretty good that both evaporators are flowing well.

I have had to add a couple cans of R134a since then to keep the system topped off. Then last Month, my daughter called me from work to tell me the van stalled and she could not get it to start. When I got there, I was able to get it started by just turning off the ac.

So, that inline 'canister' on the hose is a muffler and should be replaced?

The condenser needs replacing. (understood)

I was already planning to replace both the orifice tube (front) and the XV for the rear system.

I just want to get this fixed correctly, so I don't have to mess with it again!!


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Edited: Sun July 17, 2011 at 9:13 AM by caveeagle

caveeagle on Sun July 17, 2011 9:14 AM User is offline

Wow, that hose set is about $240 at Rock Auto. (yikes!)

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tony1963 on Sun July 17, 2011 10:23 AM User is offline

Change the condenser.

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Grove Automotive Group, Inc.

An Alabama Corporation

caveeagle on Sun July 17, 2011 10:50 AM User is offline

"Change the condenser"

Yea, that does seem to be the consensus!

I am a little shocked by the inline muffler that also seems to be a 'disposable' part. It almost seems like replacing a high mileage compressor is good insurance against replacing all these other expensive parts?

I found a suggestion on the web to just omit the muffler by welding in a tube. How would that impact performance?

I assume the muffler it to help reduce system noise. ???

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TRB on Sun July 17, 2011 11:08 AM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: caveeagle
Wow, that hose set is about $240 at Rock Auto. (yikes!)

ACKits.com.com can rebuild hose sets at a reduced cost. Plus match most any online price for parts when they are of equal quality.



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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

caveeagle on Sun July 17, 2011 4:48 PM User is offline

Any idea of cost and turn-around time?

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TRB on Sun July 17, 2011 5:03 PM User is offlineView users profile

Which line do you want rebuilt? Turn around is a day or so.


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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

caveeagle on Sun July 17, 2011 5:17 PM User is offline

It is one of these two part#s:

ACDELCO Part # 1530943
or
ACDELCO Part # 1530944

I don't have it apart yet, to know for sure.

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JJM on Mon July 18, 2011 1:07 PM User is offline

Actually, it appears Bohica put things in proper perspective. Nobody likes spending money needlessly on parts, but when you look at it as a $137 filter that lasted for 11 years, it doesn't seem all the bad, and it makes sense. You probably spent more in that time frame on air filters, and definitely oil filters. Heck, the HVAC air intake filter on my Caddy lists for $60 over from the dealer. But it is a HEPA filter, yippie! How did we manage all these years without them?

Problem is, since the advent of R-134a - thanks to irrational fears by a bunch of freaks over R-12 - components needed to be tweaked to squeeze out every last bit of performance for this less efficient refrigerant. Problem is, when something goes wrong, it takes the whole system down with it. With R-12 system, I never replaced condensers or evaporators, even with the worst kinds of failure, flushed 'em out as good as new. Only time I replaced those components was if they were damaged... or were a casualty of damage to get them disconnected.

I don't think there was sarcasm in the post; probably more frustration than anything else. We've seen the horrors sealers can do, and what might otherwise be a 1 hour job for a $20 leaking seal turns into a $2,000 complete and total system replacement. And now even evaporators need to be pulled, because they're becoming more and more like condensers with tighter passages. I don't know anyone who looks forward to replacing an evaporator on a humid 100F day, or even on a 60F day for that matter.

I would also add to Bohica's list hose replacement; after 11 years the rubber is getting suspect. And both evaporators might not be out of the question either, depending on the sealer. HECAT flushing equipment could save those... a lot better than pulling everything apart.

Also "topping off" is another potentially expensive practice.

A compressor doesn't need to be a maintenance item that should be replaced to avoid damaging everything else. They can run almost forever, provided the system is maintained with the proper level of refrigerant and oil. Low refrigerant and/or oil is probably the overwhelming cause of compressor and catastrophic system failures.

Joe

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: www.ACKits.com

caveeagle on Mon July 18, 2011 3:55 PM User is offline

I am pretty sure that this is the part I need.

ACDELCO Part # 1530944

The descripion says it has the provision for the 'Recreational Upfitting', which I assume GM added for the vans that were heading for the conversion buyer.

The best price I have found for this hose assembly is $180 online.

I am not sure how the muffler could be reconditioned, so maybe just going with a new replacement would be better.

??

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TRB on Mon July 18, 2011 4:09 PM User is offlineView users profile

I can get a new line for $162.00 plus freight.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

caveeagle on Mon July 18, 2011 4:28 PM User is offline

Thanks TRB, I need to make 100% that is the correct line, And I will get back with you asap.

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TRB on Mon July 18, 2011 4:30 PM User is offlineView users profile

I crossed the 15-30944 number. So if it's something else. I might not have it at that price. But will be happy to check on what's available.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

caveeagle on Mon July 18, 2011 6:15 PM User is offline



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caveeagle on Mon July 18, 2011 6:23 PM User is offline

'sorry for the stupid question, but what company are you affiliated with? ackits.com?

I have some other parts I have not purchased yet. Maybe I can check pricing for these as well.

I also still need:
(for a '00 Chevy 1500 Express 4.3L)
>A new decent quality compressor
>Condenser
>Expansion valve for the rear system. Part# 38683 (It also cross references with a '79 Ford F-100) FWIW
>New fan clutch (maybe)
>Some Extra O-Rings or seals that I am likely to need
>Nylog, Krytox or mineral oil for the O-rings.

Shipping for all this to 34787??


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TRB on Mon July 18, 2011 8:04 PM User is offlineView users profile

Ackits.com, aka Arizona Mobile Air Inc. the company the provides this forum.

I'll check on the other stuff Tuesday when I get back in the office.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

caveeagle on Thu July 21, 2011 6:48 AM User is offline

Any luck on the pricing for all the parts I still need??

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