Automotive Air Conditioning Information Forum (Archives)

Provided by www.ACkits.com

We've updated our forums!
Click here to visit the new forum

Archive Home

Search Auto AC Forum Archives

Old Timer Talks About AC Work Pages: 12

tony1963 on Thu June 30, 2005 8:23 AM User is offline

I had a very pleasant gentleman in the dealership yesterday who was watching us do some AC work on a 2002 Land Rover Discovery.

He said that he had an AC shop in Florida 30 years ago and was telling me some stories of how they used to do AC work. I thought that you would find it interesting some of the points made.

1.) Refrigerant recovery was not even on the radar screen back then. If the system needed work, they
opened the lines and vented the refrigerant! No one gave it a second thought.

2.) Back then, all cars were rear wheel drive and there was no electric fans to replace. He said that the
most common failure was leakage of refrigerant.

3.) Leak testing back then consisted of pressurizing the system with shop air and spraying a soapy
water solution (i.e. dishwashing soap and water) over the system looking for bubbles.

4.) Most shops didn't even vacuum the system back then as R12 was very forgiving as far as cooling
went. If they did worry about air in the system, they pulled in a little refrigerant and then let it out,
thinking that the air would go with the refrigerant.

5.) If a car came through with "Automatic Temperature Control", they refused the job and sent the
customer to the dealer (how things have changed!).

6.) The old GM A6 compressor back then was used on Ford, Mercedes and a few other vehicles and cost
about $200 back then!

7.) No one flushed systems as they didn't get debris in them like they do today.

My, how things have changed!

-------------------------
Grove Automotive Group, Inc.

An Alabama Corporation

Chick on Thu June 30, 2005 9:52 AM User is offlineView users profile

Having worked on Ac since 1962, I can agree on most..but not all. And bread was about 15 cents a loaf...

-------------------------
Chick
Email: Chick

---------------------------------------------

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

Edited: Thu June 30, 2005 at 9:52 AM by Chick

iceman2555 on Thu June 30, 2005 1:13 PM User is offlineView users profile

Been 'sniffin' freon for more years than I can remember...or care to remember. As Chick stated...some of the things mentioned are factual...but others are.....well....some thoughts are best left in ones' mind. Our shops always evac'd prior to charging....but I do remember the charging manifold that would hold four cans of refrigerant (R12) at one time. Even had a set of gauges with three gauges, four hoses, made of brass and weighed about 100 lbs. We always flushed every system.....used R11 at about $8.00/gal. Wanted a cold soda...or other drink (after hrs only) simply take a can of 12....pierce the can and apply to the can of what ever you were about to drink. Heck for our boat horns (hand held) we used 12...in fact that is what was sold at the local marina.
And the cost of the A6 at $200.00....that was usually installed with Re/Drier, flush, labor, evac and recharge. With a warranty.
Knew some shops that did not evac....would attach all parts....connect all lines, except for one...usually at the discharge side of the condenser and the inlet line to the TXV.....attach the charging hoses...open the charging manifold and bleed refrigerant into the system until it exited from both hoses...at this time....they would simply attach the disconnected hoses and enclose the system.
Never was a proponent of this....leaves moisture in the system...and one of the major failures on the older system could be contributed to 'acid' formations in the system. Evac was a necessary part of the job.
The major draw back to some of these 'old timers'....and please do not take offense.....some of their teachings have spread down the line.....Bill teaches Jim....Jim teaches Rick...and Rick never was instructed in the basic principles of A/C operations. The result is that today the market has many A/C techs (?) that do not understand how a system functions...and thus can only replace parts until something works......when a major supplier of A/C parts has a return rate of compressors (new and remanufactured) that exceed 23%, there is something seriously wrong in the market place.
And NO...TRB...it is not that company......!!!
Ya'll have a great holiday.....and please remember in your prayers the men and women who paid the surpreme price for the freedoms that we take for granted.....and are so easily cast aside by those who have never known anything but this freedom. The price for Freedom does not come from dollars and cents...but from the dark red blood of those willing to serve and protect. Please remember them....and their families.....
'GOD bless this wonderful country in which we live.....and long may we remain free."

-------------------------
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

Chick on Thu June 30, 2005 1:30 PM User is offlineView users profile

Could not agree more...Always pumped them down..Air horns on the boats..What was it like 25 cents a can or maybe less?/ can't remember that far back.. Yes, the old timer had it right, just not the way everyone did it.. But many did...I to wish everyone a happy and "Safe" holiday, especially those that are making it safe for us right now...God bless them all...

-------------------------
Chick
Email: Chick

---------------------------------------------

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

TRB on Thu June 30, 2005 2:37 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: iceman2555
And NO...TRB...it is not that company......!!!

We have averaged around a 3 percent per year warranty rate for the past 10 years. That includes installer error which we still honor in many cases.

I'm not nearly as old as Chick but have been around the shop for a good number of years. I have never seen a vehicle not evacuted before charging. Always had a leak detector, how you go to check an evap core with soap and water?



-------------------------
When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

tony1963 on Fri July 01, 2005 8:27 AM User is offline

I'm sorry that I even brought it up. All that I tried to do was to give everyone something interesting to talk about.

I found the gentleman's perspective of things interesting. I sincerely apologize if I did not bring stellar intellectual dialogue to this forum.

Sorry to hear that you have 3% failure rates.

-------------------------
Grove Automotive Group, Inc.

An Alabama Corporation

TRB on Fri July 01, 2005 10:29 AM User is offlineView users profile

You are correct Nick! Sure a mechanic can make a mistake but most of the failures we see are product related. This is not because a cheap source is used as we see failures from new OEM items to quality reman items. Anyone that would post or say they have not had a failure is blowing smoke up you're back side or really doe's not do much a/c work! My stated failure rate also includes items that really were not an issue with product. Many times we have offered a warranty when it was obviously a installer error. That's part of customer relations but you do have to put your foot down sometimes also.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

iceman2555 on Fri July 01, 2005 11:07 AM User is offlineView users profile

A 3% warranty rate is very small......and is about average for a well managed shop. However, exception could be made that there are sufficient 'not good' shops in the market. These are the shops that contribute to the higher numbers of warranty or alleged warranty issues.
Tony, do not be sorry for the post...heck...brought back many memories.....one comes to mind.....right away....concerning a lady who was convinced that we had removed the entire A/C system from her vehicle. Or course, the vehicle never had A/C to begin with....but she was totally convinced that we had removed it.......
Ya'll have a safe holiday.....


-------------------------
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

TRB on Fri July 01, 2005 11:20 AM User is offlineView users profile

Ice, we get one or two of those a year. Could you please fix my a/c, pull it in the shop and there is no a/c system!

Nothing wrong with the post! Hell this forum is based on discussion!!!

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

Chick on Fri July 01, 2005 11:54 AM User is offlineView users profile

Absolutely.. A "walk down memory lane" is good once in a while, and shows how differently things were done by different mechanics even way back when....I see nothing wrong with the post, but as you pointed out things, (Tony) so shall we... Dam, I wish I was back in the "old days" of course not as old as I am now...

-------------------------
Chick
Email: Chick

---------------------------------------------

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

steve325is on Fri July 01, 2005 12:34 PM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: iceman2555
.....one comes to mind.....right away....concerning a lady who was convinced that we had removed the entire A/C system from her vehicle. Or course, the vehicle never had A/C to begin with....but she was totally convinced that we had removed it.......

I have an elderly female friend that swears to this day that the local Toyota dealership removed the A/C from a 1983 Tercel she used to have. Her prooof is that her friend's identical Tercel had A/C.......


Steve

bohica2xo on Fri July 01, 2005 2:51 PM User is offline

Back in the day, we all knew a mechanic named "Chick"....



LOL


.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

TRB on Fri July 01, 2005 3:02 PM User is offlineView users profile

Hell I don't even have that phone number!

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

bohica2xo on Fri July 01, 2005 3:14 PM User is offline

Tim:

You are not even old enough to remember the named exchanges, like DUmont, and ATlantic..... LMAO

.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

Bigchris on Fri July 01, 2005 3:14 PM User is offline

Brad, was it your intention that we should draw some inference from that big "hot air" pipe so visible in the left side of the picture?

Chick on Fri July 01, 2005 3:22 PM User is offlineView users profile

ok...so i am a little older than i admit to..big deal..... Hey, I remember seeing that pic years ago..I think my father showed it to me when I was just a kid..He was into racing (motorcycles and midget cars)..But, no.....it's not me..

-------------------------
Chick
Email: Chick

---------------------------------------------

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

bohica2xo on Fri July 01, 2005 3:33 PM User is offline

Chris:

You are old enough to remember that was called the LOUD pipe.... If I was infering hot air I might have used a pic with a different name..... LMAO

I think the white sidewalls were an early nod to the Penguins.


.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

Bigchris on Fri July 01, 2005 4:08 PM User is offline

Now I'm LMAO!!!

Very nice piece on pressures BTW!

TRB on Fri July 01, 2005 4:53 PM User is offlineView users profile

This is our first parts truck.



-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

JJM on Fri July 01, 2005 4:53 PM User is offline

No need to apologize Tony; great post! It's always nice to take a trip down memory lane!

To add:

- With many Chrysler (those systems had EPR valves that needed the three guage manifold sets IceMan was referring to) and some Ford systems, you could replace or service a compressor without even discharging and evacuating the system - simply close the service valves and unbolt the compressor.

- A lot of DIY folks used to do their own A/C work with nothing more than a charging tap, hose, and can of R-12. Hook up the can and charge until the suction line gets cold!

- Oil was rarely added on a recharge because those A6, York, RV2... all had their own sump where most of the oil remained.

- Folks with GM cars used to carry those three prong thermal limiter fuses in their glove compartment. They even used to sell them in supermarkets! If you had a really leaky system that kept running low, just pull the wire off the back of the compressor to the superheat switch.

- If the A/C compressor seized up, cut the belt and keep going (now with single serpentine belts you often need a tow truck).

- As NickD pointed out, flushing was done with liquid R-12. At $25 for a 30 lb tank you didn't mind, but as Iceman mentioned out, R-11 was much cheaper.

- Almost all OEM's specificed NEW refrigerant as part of proper service procedures. I don't know if it was because reused refrigerant is bad no matter what, or they just didn't have the recovery technology back then.

- "Advanced" leak detection techniques included butane or propane sniffing, with the color of the flame indicating a leak. Otherwise as Tony mentioned, soap n' water and air!

I remember Bohica noting a while ago the reason A/C systems were built better back then was that they were a luxury option, and a significant percentage of the vehicle price, whereas today, even the crappiest of cars have A/C standard.

Have a safe and great 4th of July folks! And thanks guys for the trip down memory lane!

Joe

Chick on Fri July 01, 2005 11:31 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: TRB
This is our first parts truck.



">http://www.autoacforum.com/forumimages/TRUCK.jpg">[/q

And I understand you're "STILL" driving that truck back and forth to work...Toyota 4x4 my a**

-------------------------
Chick
Email: Chick

---------------------------------------------

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

TRB on Fri July 01, 2005 11:41 PM User is offlineView users profile

That was the first US business the Bohringer family opened. Back then they were living in Chicago!

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

TRB on Sun July 03, 2005 1:09 PM User is offlineView users profile

Nope born and raised in sunny Arizona, which is freaking hot today! Think dad lived in Chicago in his early years then moved to Washington State. If a remember correctly that was his uncles roofing company in which dad did work for him a few years. I'm so happy they moved to Arizona even if I have to go out and mow the yards here shortly!

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

Anonymous on Tue July 05, 2005 4:54 PM User is offline

Dear Old Timer,
I also am an old timer,Been around since 1925. I have a question? Are you familiar with an ad on kit for a 1982 Chev Pu. Insided you can't tell it didn't come on the truck but under the hood it has a York compressor,two cyl.vertical. The unit works great BUT They had a top radaitor hose made especially for that set up. At the water gooseneck it has a real short bend and then a long sweep to go around the compressor. I have replaced the hose twice in twenty yeas but now I need one and can't find it. The company that installed the unit has gone out of business. 'HELP'
Thank you ,
Houston Shannon
1802 Knoxville Hwy.
Wartburg,Tenn. 37887
1-423-346-3299

Back to Off Topic Chat

We've updated our forums!
Click here to visit the new forum

Archive Home

Copyright © 2016 Arizona Mobile Air Inc.