Automotive Air Conditioning Information Forum (Archives)

Provided by www.ACkits.com

We've updated our forums!
Click here to visit the new forum

Archive Home

Search Auto AC Forum Archives

Mother-in-Law's Hero Again.....

HECAT on Mon April 17, 2006 1:28 PM User is offline

Just thought I would share this as a good Monday laugh...

My Mother-in Law came over yesterday for Easter Sunday dinner. At dinner, she was telling me how her A/C was not working and the vents were blowing warm air. After dinner, I headed out to investigate with many other concerned family members following. I tried not to bust out laughing as the other family members began to offer their diagnosis.

(1) its low on coolant, you know, antifreeze...
(2) it not hot enough yet for it to work right...
(3) you need to have the dealer check it out...
(4) look for bubbles in the window...

I had her start the car and put it on max air. Compressor is not engaging. Jumped the pressure switch with a paper clip and she was instantly screaming in the car that it was working. Pulled the clip and the compressor disengaged, reconnected the switch and it's still not running. Just before I went to get my gauges, I leaned in the car and saw the fan on high, the selector on max air, and a little blue button that said A/C. Pushed that little blue button, compressor engaged and it began cooling beautifully.

My mother-in-law insists with all the years she has owned this 1993 Honda, she has never touched that little blue button. She will be at the shop today, that did an oil change about 4 months ago, to give them an ear full for messing with her controls. LMAO but I do feel sorry for those lube tech's



-------------------------



HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

NickD on Mon April 17, 2006 2:46 PM User is offline

One of my inlaws always says its the computer, even when the car only has a flat tire. When did Honda switch from a green AC indicator to a blue one? My ex ma-inlaw didn't know you could lock the car by holding the outside door handle up and didn't want to know that as she could lock herself out. Have to lock the car with the keys, but at least they should be in your hand and not in the ignition switch.

HECAT on Mon April 17, 2006 3:02 PM User is offline

Nick, you are correct, it was not blue, it was black and green lit when on.

Along the same line as your ex ma-in-law, my mother did this few times until we got her convinced not to do it anymore. When she got out of the car the ding, ding, ding, she thought, was telling her the door was open so she locked and closed it quickly only to find out the ding, ding was telling her the keys were still in the ignition.



-------------------------



HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

GM Tech on Mon April 17, 2006 10:18 PM User is offline

I would have thought jumpering the switch would do no good without the control head a/c button pushed...

-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

TRB on Mon April 17, 2006 11:20 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: GM Tech
I would have thought jumpering the switch would do no good without the control head a/c button pushed...

I agree, this system uses a thermostat as a cycling device. Switches are "pressure" switches and should not be jumped on this vehicle! Look for corroded connections as that is common on those connections.



-------------------------
When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

NickD on Tue April 18, 2006 6:41 AM User is offline

That's taking the fun out of the story, Honda uses the dual function pressure switch that always stays closed if the high side pressure is within the 40 to 390 PSI range. So unless the system was way over or undercharged, the switch would be closed and jumpering a short circuit wouldn't make any difference, strictly a safety device.

"(2) it not hot enough yet for it to work right..." carries some merit if the OAT was cool, here the high side with a cold engine would drop to under 40 PSI if the ambient was below 40*F opening the dual function switch but still wouldn't kick start the system with the AC switch opened, that switch breaks the low side of the clutch relay coil.

A three foot long paper clip would do the trick from the single clutch coil wire to the positive side of the battery. So much for taking the fun out of the story, still think the computer was the problem.

Chick on Tue April 18, 2006 7:16 AM User is offlineView users profile

Actually I have seen this happen with Hondas. The one side of the switch has 12v all the time (Button pushed on or off) it's the button that activates the computer to recognize the switch/controls etc. So even with the ac button off, jumping the one side of the switch will start the compressor. I'm not big on electronics on forigen cars, so I can't explain it, but it does work just as Hecat said on some model years. If the right swiitch was jumped. I think that one has a four wire switch which is what allows that to happen..Just my two cents...

-------------------------
Chick
Email: Chick

---------------------------------------------

Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

NickD on Tue April 18, 2006 10:20 AM User is offline

I am meeting my match with this motorhome, one problem after the next and the previous owners really screwed up the electrical system. Only four devices have mating connectors, ignition and headlamp switches, the gauges, and the body connector, all the rest are spade type devices that connect to loose wires from a rather huge harness. All are equal length and with a twelve terminal switch, any of the wires can be plugged into any of the twelve terminals.

The windshield washer motor was wired with ground on one side and the switch provided a ground on the other side, somehow it didn't work with two grounds across the motor terminals. The switch itself is a grounded switch to the panel, but the wire leading to the motor goes through all things, the directional signal flasher to pulse the motor and that requires 12 volts. Not finding a suitable pushbutton switch that would mount and look nice in the panel, had no choice but to isolate that switch from ground and feed 12 volts to the motor, it works fine, but how in the hell did it ever work in the first place?

My current challenge now is the AC control panel, no mating connector to deal with, but ten spades scattered all over the side, back, and top of the panel with again ten equal wire lengths terminated in female spades with the wires disappearing into that endless harness, where the other ends are beats the hell out of me through this 36 foot long harness that goes everywhere. I did get through that without a circuit to work from, can't even find anything close in the several GM manuals I have, but the panel sure looks like GM and fits perfectly in the dash panel, so I assume its correct, had to do the same thing with the vacuum lines.

What I thought was the high speed blower relay is just a junction point routing 12V from the fuse panel with more unidentified spades on it that just plug in, anywhere as the 12V was routed through two corroded closed contacts. A brown lead from the harness was connected to one of the coil terminals, the other coil terminal had no wire on it, nor where there any wires even close to it that could be connected. The normally open terminal has a gray wire on it that disappears through the bulkhead, not even God knows where that wire goes or what it is for. That is todays project, to trace these wires, find out where they are going and what if anything they are connected to and try to make some sense of it.

One happy surprise is that the AC clutch wire goes through a low pressure cutoff switch, I hit 12V on that wire using a current limited power supply and the clutch coil clicked in meaning either the pressure switch is short circuited or there is pressure in the system, but haven't gotten that far yet.

An eight foot wide plywood deck forms the foundation of the deck and is curved to match the front huge fiberglass front of the home, but huge, 8 feet wide by nine feet tall with the grill, windshield and all that other stuff on it like horns, markers, and headlamps. No ifs, ands, or butts about it, that plywood deck was put in first before the front was attached, but had to remove that to remove the heater ductwork, what a job. Took me two days to get that back in and screwed down properly. Practically everything mounted with self drilling holes and wanted to match these holes so everything goes back the way it came out, some 36 screws attached this deck all with random placement and angles. The front of this deck has a rubber gasket that wasn't folded properly over the front, I pulled that off and reseated it adding about 3/8" to the front that had to be compressed so the holes would align. That was a physical workout for an old man.

The old Coleman roof top AC works great, but only had a single high fan setting, way to noisy for sleeping at night, my last one had a two speed fan, had to do something about that. Got out the variac and test equipment and plotted an I-E curve to prove to myself the fan motor is speed controllable, it was, so I added a fan control continuously variable speed control setting the low limit to a comfortable sounding level, but still strong enough so the evaporator wouldn't freeze up.

I only have Honda circuits up to 1990, but falsely assumed the 93 was similar, but having the circuit would make it simple and tracing wouldn't be bad with known color coded wires and mating connectors. Noted I don't have a solenoid idle kick up on my 454, but maybe it doesn't need one, was nice when the AC was an independent circuit unlike my DeVille where the control panel is nothing more than a data link transmitter talking both the the BCM and ECM depending on what combinations of buttons you hit. Time to go out and find out where that brown and gray wire goes to, can only end up in one of 16 places according to the unidentified harness drawing.

HECAT on Tue April 18, 2006 10:32 AM User is offline

OK, Now I am feeling foolish as you bring validity to family comments I laughed at related to computer controls and ambient temp.

Old school thinking again, I just wanted to jump the pressure switch and see if the compressor would engage or not. Obviously by your comments, I should not have done this or maybe even should have not been able to do this. Don't know now if I even selected the right place. Who knows, maybe I jumped an A/C switch relay without even knowing it.

OK, back to the funny part; A/C NOT WORKING: THE A/C SWITCH WAS NOT TURNED ON! LOL!

What would the dealer charge have been if she went in to have it checked out? I know, loaded question. They could have cut her loose at no charge for a good laugh, or they could be calling with a $900.00 repair quote. She's happy, she's cool, and for the moment, I am number one son-in-law.



-------------------------



HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

TRB on Tue April 18, 2006 10:46 AM User is offlineView users profile

This is a recent "dealer" post from our friend Tony at BAT Auto.

--------------------------------------
Man, I gotta tell you.
This about pisses me off.
A friend brought over his 2002 Dodge 4x4 truck and had the check engine light on.
He took it to the local Dodge dealer and said they brought it in and checked the codes and said it was the fuel cap and needed replacing, cause there was a problem with the gasket.

Ok, so he went and bought a new fuel cap and put it on.
The light never went out. So he called and I asked if they had cleared the codes?
Nope, he left there with the light on.
Ok, so I had him bring it by and we hooked it up.
Odd, no emissions codes present, but a P1491 trouble code for the fan relay.
So turn on the AC to max and no fan comes on.
We check fuses and the A/C fan fuse is blown.
Replace the fuse, check the wires and everything seems ok.
Clear the codes, roadtest and all checks out fine.

Come to find out, he had steam cleaned the engine compartment with the engine running and the A/C on.
Following where this is going?
He said the check engine light was on just after that.

So, what irritates me is the fact that he was charged $85 for them to a diagnosis and they didn't do a damn thing.
They couldn't have even hooked up to it or they wouldn't have told him it was an EVAP problem.

--------------------------------------

I just thought I would post this since you asked what would a dealer charge you to have the system checked out. We know they will charge you but will it actually be checked out?

PS: For all your auto a/c flushing needs please support our SPONSOR Hecat Inc.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

NickD on Tue April 18, 2006 1:20 PM User is offline

Ha, Hecat, least that paper clip didn't result in a puff of smoke or either you or you ma-in-law would have had a 900 buck bill.

Traced out my heater relay, indubitably a power relay, the guy had it jumpered to the always hot auxiliary batteries that meant having one more thing to turn off manually. Cleaned the contacts, put on new terminals and tapped the coil off the ignition switch, this shortened the leads to the blower motor about 16 feet that is only using a factory 16 gauge wire. 16 gauge in the home is only good for about 10 amperes, but in automotive, at least 40 amps. Unit has an 80 amp alternator running 10 gauge, that is Chevy, not Pace Arrow, 10 gauge in the home is 30 amperes maximum. Switch ratings also get to me, a 60 ampere industrial switch requires a wheel barrel to haul it around, automotive tries to get by with a piece of plastic contacting a dimple in a small piece of copper foil. always amazed are long they last, seems like that puff of smoke should occur the first time something is turned on.

The check lamp is the result of one huge OR gate whereby any of a couple hundred different problems will turn it on, prefer to call it the heart attack lamp. Circuitry wise would be just as cheap if not cheaper to add a scrolling display to the dash to tell the driver in English exactly what the problem is as the external scanner with all that code conversion, serializing, cabling, connector also add to the cost of the automobile. Scanners do not create information but only display the information that is already there but yet GM, Ford and others want over $5,000.00 for these toys that are not even as complicated as an eight buck scientific calculator.

Would be nice if the entire buying public would refuse to buy a new vehicle until they added a proper display, yeah, and also an access plate for the fuel pump and even drains on the differential, transmission, and soon to come, on the crankcase pan.

HECAT on Tue April 18, 2006 4:52 PM User is offline

You are absolutely right Nick. Seems from the additional info I have gathered from this post I could have smoked something. Don't think that would have been good for the son-in-law ranking.



-------------------------



HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

Karl Hofmann on Fri April 21, 2006 2:56 PM User is offlineView users profile

Ha! I had the same problem with a youngish chap with a Mercedes, he was mos insistant that I attend to his car immediately, the arrogant sod. When I got there, the solution was obvious, he had obviously thought that if the light was on on the E/C button, then the ac should work. I turned on the air con, left a sarcastic post it note on his dash and went to see him in his office. Obviously keen to learn how I had fixed his car so quickly, he asked what I had done, and in front of three secretaries I said," I have switched it on for you sir, here is my invoice."

-------------------------
Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

NickD on Sat April 22, 2006 8:49 AM User is offline

When I first got my 92 DeVille, I thought it was broke as the radio still played with the key in my pocket, strangely, opening the door switched off the radio. Unlocking the drivers door, only unlocked the drivers door, other cars with locks would open all the doors. Have to turn the key and hold it under spring pressure for two seconds to open all four doors. A safety feature, but have to read the owners manual to learn all this stuff.

I did read my entire Cavalier manual when I first got it, very little information on the car, but page after page of safety related information that was not only common sense, but very general that would apply to any vehicle. That really annoys me and why can't they put that in a separate book? The new shop manuals are the same, ha, still the old same stuff, don't smoke while working a fuel system, but nothing about using an acetylene torch near a fuel system, so that must be okay.

Seems like most people just don't take the time to read their owners manual that would save problems like this, but they are scant on really explaining what all those switches are for. Really bugs me when I look at a used vehicle and the owners manual is not there, the 98 ZX2 didn't have one, but told the dealer if he wants to sell me the car, would have to supply one, put that in the contract and received it two weeks later.

Did quickly read the 120 page manual that came with my cellular phone, but forgot most of it two days later. Know how to turn it on and off and how to manually dial a number that seems good enough for me. Have to read the Supra owners manual if it looks like rain. With one lever can either spray the windshield, back window, or the headlamps, have delays in both the windshield and rear window wipers, have one time operation or mist in both, plus the normal three speeds depending on how far I slide my right hand down the lever or move it up or down. Just too much to remember.

Vehicles are not consistent anymore, go to turn on the headlamps in my DeVille to have the windshield washer spray slop all over the place.

Forget about learning how to use some of these aftermarket radios, pretty much knew how to use it when bench testing it over a month ago. Finally got the harness and new speakers installed in my motorhome, plug in the radio to test it, sounds great, but went to turn off the radio only to switch between various input sources. Forgot I was suppose to hit and hold the power switch for at least two seconds to turn the darn thing off. But this only produces a message on the display, are you sure you want to turn me off? This new stuff is crazy.

Back to Off Topic Chat

We've updated our forums!
Click here to visit the new forum

Archive Home

Copyright © 2016 Arizona Mobile Air Inc.