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Question for Karl and UK Tech

steve325is on Wed February 14, 2007 10:55 AM User is offline

Year: any
Make: any
Model: any

I have a question for you two, and for anyone else in Europe:

Where do you get repair information for vehicles that you aren't familiar with? Can you buy a short-term subscription from the manufacturer, do you ask a mate at the main dealer or what?

Any insight is appreciated!

-- Steve

UK Tech on Wed February 14, 2007 12:03 PM User is offline

There's no easy way. Gas qty and oil type is easy, at least for the more common vehicles, but can be tricky for some stuff like Ferraris and Maseratis. For other info it's a case of factory manuals, dodgy disks off ebay, mates at dealers and pot luck.

You can subscribe to data sources like autodata, but it's expensive and the a/c information can be poor. Traditionally, manufacturers have not released information, but the EU has told them this must stop. So now you can buy the info from each manufacturer for a small fortune, which basically means we haven't moved on any.

I do very little car work now, in part because it's so difficult getting the info and diagnosing faults, and because when you tell punters the price to repair they usually have a heart attack on the spot.

Karl Hofmann on Wed February 14, 2007 6:40 PM User is offlineView users profile

Like UK Tech, I too have withdrawn prettymuch from car aircon. Too many muppets banging on parts without doing the job right have pushed the rates way down. I know most of the service managers at the main agents in my area so technical data is rarely a problem, some will even let ne bring a car in to be connected to their diagnostic equipment. Autodata books are usefull but limited and frequently wrong. I also have the latest Autodata discs which were pirated by a pal of mine. If I had actually had to pay for these discs then I would have been as mad as hell as they are not very good.

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

NickD on Wed February 14, 2007 7:19 PM User is offline

In the 60's in the USA, was a coupon in the rear of the owners manual to send in 3-4 bucks to get a complete shop service manual for vehicle postage paid. That is when I started buying shop manuals as opposed to using Motors Professional Manuals that covered all domestic cars for several years that ran about eight bucks a copy. But to think about it, that's all we had were domestic cars.

With an piece of electronic equipment or an appliance, simply called the manufacturer back then, they would be more than happy to send a manual and complete parts list for free, those days are gone. Today when you call they want over a thousand bucks to buy a manual that covers their complete product line when you only one a manual for one piece of equipment.

The 2004 manuals for my Cavalier came down from 180 to 140 bucks, but you can't even change a tire on that car without reference to a $5300.00 GM Tech II scanner, the entire manual is written around that. My Chevy dealer isn't buying manuals, but get on the GM web site for data, was able to get on that for awhile, but they change the passwords every five minutes, really not very much there except a couple of circuits and a long list of TSB's that tell you if a wheel lug nut is loose, to tighten it, duh.

Well, just saying, you guys over the pond don't have it much worse than we do, it's a throwaway market anymore. Ha, even in my 65 Buick manual, couldn't do a thing without a GM charging station, but learned how to work around that.

steve325is on Thu February 15, 2007 3:00 PM User is offline

Thanks Guys. So what does the typical motorist in the UK do? Have a muppet work on their car, or take it back to the main agent?

-- Steve

Karl Hofmann on Thu February 15, 2007 7:13 PM User is offlineView users profile

The smart cookies find a good reputable independant mecanic or workshop and stick with them. These independandts will call in specialists to do any work that they do not have the specialist knowlage to do there by you get far better service at a far better price and know that the job is right, the lazy go to the main agent, those who are ruled by price only go to spannermonkeys and get what they pay for...

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

HerkyJim on Thu February 15, 2007 7:24 PM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: UK Tech
There's no easy way. ..and because when you tell punters the price to repair they usually have a heart attack on the spot.

I receive the UK magazine "The Classic Motorcycle" every month, and I see this expression "punter" every once in a while. Still haven't figured out from context what it means?

Just scanned an absolutely gorgeous 1961 Matchless G12 CSR foom the latest issue. Remember as a 16 years old kid dreaming about owning one just like it some day. This was 1961 and it was in the showroom at the dealer in Fresno.

NickD on Fri February 16, 2007 9:43 AM User is offline

Who knows how the British are butchering the English language, LOL, we know here a punter is the guy that kicks a football. Also a guy that propels a flat bottom boat with a pole, the oldest version of this word. Yet another meaning that I haven't the slightest idea how it was formed, a punter is a gambler or a gamble. But will have to rely on the British for exactly how they are using this word.

Ha, my wife wanted to watch the grammy awards, could recognize the English words, but had no idea what they were saying, must be out of touch. We had closed caption turned on and the person doing the typing couldn't keep up with some of the presenters, could only conclude some were taking a "substance", I couldn't explain to her what they were talking about. Also wondered what happened to music, what happened to a melody, harmony, and rhythm? If I want some guy to yell, scream and cuss at me, might as well rejoin the military.

UK Tech on Fri February 16, 2007 5:38 PM User is offline

Punter is slang for customer. I guess it comes from gambling, where one takes a punt or a gamble. The analogy being the customer leaves his car with you, never being too sure what the outcome will be, either in terms of cost or the quality of the work.

It must be hard for immigrants to learn and understand our language when some words have numerous meanings. Come to think of it, not many immigrants bother to learn the language anyway, and why should they when our great government will gladly pay for translators should they be required.

HerkyJim on Fri February 16, 2007 5:58 PM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: UK Tech
Punter is slang for customer....our great government will gladly pay for translators should they be required.

Over here the hospitals need many translators: Spanish, Hmong, Vietnamese, Cambodian, Arabic, Russian, Chinese (many dialects), Filipino, etc etc. Thats in addition to the ambulance drivers, paramedics, surgeons, nurses and all the rest at the county hospital when they bring in a van load of illegals that got broadsided at 4AM in the fog because the (illegal) driver--who has a drivers license by the way--courtesy of the slack DMV system and /or liberal legislators, ran a stop sign. Well, heck at least the grapes get picked, and the trees get pruned...

Karl Hofmann on Fri February 16, 2007 7:11 PM User is offlineView users profile

I think that "Punter" more of a southern term but is being used more and more oop North. Ha we have plenty of our own slang that can fox Southerners. We have language classes that the local authority runs to teach the new influx of Polish immigrants how to communicate and at least they are making the effort to learn, there are still plenty of Brits who have holiday villas in Spain who cannot speak Spanish.

When I was driving my truck round Europe, even though I may not be delivering in the country that I was passing through, I always made a point of learning "Hello", "Goodbye", "Please", and "Thankyou"....Oh and how to order a beer.

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

NickD on Fri February 16, 2007 7:16 PM User is offline

Would it be the US or the British government that would pay for a translator? Meaning for me so I would know what in the hell you British guys are talking about. LOL

Karl Hofmann on Sun February 18, 2007 4:24 AM User is offlineView users profile

Ha ha! It is you guys who are the foreiners so I fel that should be you who should learn our language. Standard English first, then move on to the regional dialects, from Scotland, Tyneside, Wales, The West country, The Black Country, The Potteries and the wierdest dialect of all from the South

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

NickD on Sun February 18, 2007 7:20 AM User is offline

Wife is still trying to learn English, the other day we were talking about the word, "light". Here is the definition:

"1. Physics. a. Electromagnetic radiation that has a wavelength in the range from about 4,000 (violet) to about 7,700 (red) angstroms and may be perceived by the normal unaided human eye. b. Electromagnetic radiation of any wavelength. 2. The sensation of perceiving light; brightness: a sudden light that made me blink. 3.a. A source of light, especially a lamp, a lantern, or an electric lighting fixture: Turn out the lights when you leave. b. The illumination derived from a source of light: by the light of the moon. c. The particular quantity or quality of such illumination: moved the lamp closer to get better light. d. The pathway or route of such illumination to a person: You're standing in his light. 4. A mechanical device that uses illumination as a signal or warning, especially a beacon or traffic signal. 5.a. Daylight. b. Dawn; daybreak. 6. Something, such as a window, that admits illumination. 7. A source of fire, such as a match or cigarette lighter. 8. Spiritual awareness; illumination. 9.a. Something that provides information or clarification: threw some light on the question. b. A state of awareness or understanding, especially as derived from a particular source: in the light of experience. 10. Public attention; general knowledge: brought the scandal to light. 11. A way of looking at or considering a matter; an aspect: saw the situation in a different light. 12. Archaic. Eyesight. 13. lights. One's individual opinions, choices, or standards: acted according to their own lights. 14. A person who inspires or is adored by another: My daughter is the light of my life. 15. A prominent or distinguished person; a luminary: one of the leading lights of the theater. 16. An expression of the eyes: a strange light in her eyes. 17. Light. In Quaker doctrine, the guiding spirit or divine presence in each person. 18. The representation of light in art. --light v. light·ed or lit (l¹t), light·ing, lights. --tr. 1. To set on fire; ignite or kindle. 2. To cause to give out light; make luminous: lit a lamp. 3. To provide, cover, or fill with light; illuminate: fireworks lighting the sky. 4. To signal, direct, or guide with or as if with illumination. 5. To enliven or animate: A smile lit her face. --intr. 1. To start to burn; be ignited or kindled: Green wood does not light easily. 2. To emit light; be lighted: Wait until the indicator lights up. --light adj. light·er, light·est. 1. Color. a. Having a greater rather than lesser degree of lightness. b. Of or being an additive primary color. 2. Characterized by or filled with light; bright: a room that is light when the shutters are open. 3. Not dark in color; fair: light hair and skin. 4. Served with milk or cream. Used of coffee. --phrasal verbs. light up. 1. To become or cause to become animated or cheerful. 2. To start smoking a cigarette, cigar, or pipe. --idioms. in (the) light of. In consideration of; in relationship to. [Middle English, from Old English l¶oht, lºht. See leuk- below.]
————————————————————
USAGE NOTE: Lighted and lit are equally acceptable as past tense and past participle of light. Both forms are well established as adjectives also: a lighted (or lit) cigarette.
light2 (lºt) adj. light·er, light·est. 1.a. Of relatively little weight; not heavy: a light load. b. Of relatively little weight for its size or bulk: Balsa is a light wood. c. Of less than the correct, standard, or legal weight: a light pound. 2. Exerting little force or impact; gentle: a light pat. 3.a. Of little quantity; scanty: light snow. b. Consuming or using relatively moderate amounts; abstemious: a light eater; a light smoker. c. Not harsh or severe: gave the offender a light sentence. 4. Demanding little exertion or effort; not burdensome: light household tasks. See Synonyms at easy. 5. Having little importance; insignificant: light, idle chatter. 6. Intended primarily as entertainment; not serious or profound: a light comedy. 7. Free from worries or troubles; blithe: a light heart. 8. Characterized by frivolity; silly or trivial. 9. Liable to change; fickle. 10. Mildly dizzy or faint: felt light in the head. 11. Lacking in ethical discrimination. 12. Moving easily and quickly; nimble: The dancer was light and graceful. 13. Designed for ease and quickness of movement; having a relatively slim structure and little weight: light aircraft. 14. Designed to carry relatively little weight: a light truck. 15. Carrying little equipment or armament: light cavalry; light tanks. 16. Requiring relatively little equipment and using relatively simple processes to produce consumer goods: light industry. 17. Easily awakened or disturbed: a light sleeper. 18.a. Easily digested: a light supper. b. Having a spongy or flaky texture; well-leavened: light pastries. 19. Having a loose, porous consistency: light soil. 20. Containing a relatively small amount of a potentially harmful ingredient, such as alcohol, fat, or sodium: light beer; light mayonnaise. 21. Linguistics. a. Of, relating to, or being a syllable ending in a short vowel or a short vowel plus a consonant. b. Of, relating to, or being a vowel or syllable pronounced with little or no stress. --light adv. lighter, lightest. 1. In a light manner; lightly. 2. With little weight and few burdens: traveling light. --light intr.v. light·ed or lit (l¹t), light·ing, lights. 1. To get down, as from a vehicle or horse; dismount."

Ha, try to explain that word in an easy way.

Every field of endeavor has it's own set of slang, abbreviations, acronyms, and idioms, can't keep it simple. Groups love newly created idioms to put them on the inside so everyone else is on the outside. You know, being on the outside really isn't so bad, LOL.

Karl Hofmann on Sun February 18, 2007 8:07 AM User is offlineView users profile

Ha! there are plenty of English people who still haven't grasped the basics of the English language.

Light... Not heavy.....Used to remove dark from the eyes to allow a person to see....American term to describe beer with the flavour of very cold distilled fizzy water....To ignite....(Keep the Light beer on hand to control if things get out of hand)

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

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