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3-way toggle light dimmer

NickD on Mon May 14, 2007 4:10 PM User is offline

For using two switches to control one lamp, why do they call these things 3-way? Because it has three terminals? It certainly is not a three way functional switch, is a single pole double throw switch, the hot goes into the common terminal, two traveler wires go to the second switch, it's common terminal goes to the lamp, common just goes to the low side of the lamp. So the powered switch can make either traveler wire hot and the load switch can choose either the hot or dead wire, so both switches can control the lamp, really quite simple.

Liking dimmers I have installed a rotary dimmer that also doubles as a push-push switch, in other words, the dimming function is independent of the switching action. They can't do that with a toggle type switch as the toggle both dims and switches the power to either pole. Kind of dumb, if the toggle is all the way down, will work but with full brightness, but if left up a tad, the other switch is useless, have to crawl around in the dark to get to the dimmer toggle switch. Wonder who thought this up, and wonder why I was dumb enough to buy one, maybe I thought when the switch is a tad up, they were reversing the potentiometer so it would work the correct way. Taking it back, but just wasted time with it. Hope I can still find a rotary, old one broke after 22 years, hitting the switch drives a rod on a ratchet like gear that lost all it's teeth. Maybe I can take it to my dentist.

mhamilton on Mon May 14, 2007 9:34 PM User is offlineView users profile

I know how that is... have the same setup in my kitchen. Wanted a dimmer because 9 recessed cans @ 75 watts each is a bit wasteful all the time. Got one of those 3-way dimmers that has the slide control next to the toggle. Hate when someone leaves it dim, and I come in the opposite door with the regular switch.

Almost as irksome as a ceiling fan wired to one switch, so turn on the switch and get no light at all, just the fan. Luckily have only one of those in this new house.

WayneC on Mon May 14, 2007 10:51 PM User is offline

I'm partial to good ol' fashioned oil lamps myself. You carry them with you when and where you go and always have light with you. All this new fangled automatic convenience crap never works the way it was intended. What a sad commentary on our lives that we should be inconvenienced with walking across a room to turn on an always there electric light instead of being able to turn it on from anywhere in the home. At the same time there are those in this world that, to this day, don't even know what it would be like to turn a switch ANYWHERE in there dwelling and have illumination enter there life. That being aside from the fact that ANY light in the home would even be on the list of "things to worry about today".

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Those who can...do
Those who can't...
usually end up here

NickD on Tue May 15, 2007 8:12 AM User is offline

Yeah, but those thousands of whales that had to die so we can have light. Some of the older dimmers had a potentiometer on the inside to set the minimum dimness, but can solder in a 60-150 K ohm resistor across the existing pot to do the same thing, except they are riveted together and parts fall out. They use to put real potentiometers in these things, now you get a carbon strip painted on a piece of ceramic with some finger contacts waiting to break off. Getting near impossible to find a good old fashion pot with a power switch on it so you can convert one.

I also have eight of those canned spot lights, after 22 years, finally painted my kitchen, I do get things done, eventually. Had to remove all eight spots to remove the bezels for painting, three of the spots are original, so those dimmers do extend the life of the bulbs.

The dimmer I am having problems with is for my upstairs hallway and stair lights, a rather long walk, has two 3-ways, and a reversing 4-way, the older dimmers could be mounted in place of either three way, but this new toggle has to be wired directly to the power end, limiting your choices. Seems like common sense is giving way to crap.

mhamilton on Tue May 15, 2007 10:17 AM User is offlineView users profile

Aren't all of our problems just bourgeois nuisances? Else we would not be concerned with repair of automobile air conditioning.

Nick, I have to agree, common sense is gone. The building codes today have made it even more apparent. In my kitchen, they had to put an outlet every 2 feet along the counter (for a total of 8 in my kitchen). I have only used one outlet in 7 years, for the toaster and coffee maker. Likewise, the upstairs hall has *5* switches for the lights. One had to be put outside of every bedroom, and one at the bottom of the stairs. I can stand there and reach two switches at the same time.... what are these inspectors thinking?

NickD on Tue May 15, 2007 10:52 AM User is offline

Electrical is so simple nowadays, as is plumbing, no more conduit, no more galvanized threaded pipes, using plastic tubing in new homes, wonder how long that would last. Son just had a house built, a little different, contractor just wanted a letter of intent that my son could have backed out of, but did make requests for added things. One was a ceiling outlet for his overhead projector, told my son that had to be a dead ended outlet from his receiver outlet to avoid ground loops and just run a piece of RG-58 that is more than sufficient for the video signal. Inspected the wiring first before the drywall was put on, that outlet was strung in series with other outlets, so much for ground loops. Electrician had to change that. 69 cents for a plastic box, 36 cents for the receptacle, 14 cents for the cover, and about twenty feet of UF 14-2 W/ground. Charged my kid 150 bucks for that. I gave my son a piece of RG-58 for the electrician to run, he just put that in a plastic box, the rest is up to us.

mhamilton on Tue May 15, 2007 2:57 PM User is offlineView users profile

15 years ago had the galvanized garbage in my 1923 house replaced with copper. Pressure at the faucets increased about 30psi!

Built this house, was not asked what to use, they just put in the plastic pipes. Seems really cheap to me, but apparently the pipes will burst before the connections will. The one thing I really hate are the PVC drain lines... they're very noisy.

bohica2xo on Tue May 15, 2007 4:13 PM User is offline

Nick:

For some reason, hydraulic valve terminology seems to have been applied to the "3 way switch". I guess "3 terminal" would have been a better name...

I have dimmers all over this house, the previous owner must have worked for Leviton. Every lighting circuit has a touch plate dimmer - even the outdoor lights.

With the big push for CFL's now, I am waiting for the socialist states like CA to ban dimmers - because you can't run a CFL on a dimmable circuit. It will probably come after they outlaw incandescent bulbs.

I replace a dimmer with a switch just so I could run a couple of CFL's in one area. No noticable savings on the electric bill, but at least I won't be replacing the bulbs twice a year.

Now, my variable speed pool pump w/feedback HAS saved a lot of money. I just heard that someone is making a commercial version now. 3 plase motor, and a volts/HZ drive really should be mandatory in A/C as well.

B

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"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

NickD on Wed May 16, 2007 7:19 AM User is offline

I did switch to Compact Fluorescent Lamps for my trouble lamps, don't burn my hand and can take a two inch drop with breaking the filament, those expensive heavy duty bulbs for trouble lights can only take a 3 inch drop.

Didn't want to pay a fortune for a 25 W incandescent, so stuck a 1N4007 one diode in series with a cheap 100 W bulb to get my 25 watts for my night reading lamp, that bulb has lasted over 30 years.

My notebook and other LCD backlighted devices use a fluorescent tube that is dimmable so they should be able to make a CFL that has the same characteristics, just needs a high starting voltage to ionized the gas, then, can be toned down, quite a wide range on my Dell Axim.

We can still buy cheap hydro from the Canadian Indians, first it was the environmentalists or whatever the hell they call themselves, now it the politicians claiming that we should grow weeds and burn them to keep the money in state and create jobs. So why don't they block imports from China and Canada, like most GM vehicles and make that stuff here? If they would let our farmers grow weed for recreational use, our state treasury would have trillions. And get the cheap electricity from Canada and just import medical doctors from China. No cure, no pay.

Energy is still about 5% technology and 95% politics. Until that changes, nothing will change.

newton5 on Sun May 20, 2007 1:41 AM User is offlineView users profile

Hey Nick, don't you mean a 2 YARD drop? I stumbled on CFLs in trouble lights (drop lights) quite by accident.
Doing some work at a friends shop, I knew the bulbs would be out in all of his trouble lights. I stopped to purchase a Rough Service bulb and a pack of cheap incandescents for backups. My son was looking at some CFLs that were on sale for $2.99 and said "What about one of these"? I didn't have an answer and "assumed" they wouldn't be suitable. I decided to try one, a 75 watt comparable Phillips Soft white CFL.
The light quality took a small adjustment but 1.5 years later, that bulb is still in that fixture. It's been dropped, accidentally retracted (reel cord), tossed in frustration and generally abused. The Rough Service bulb is still on the shelf in his shop, as he converted to CFLs soon after that. My sons teenage curiosity helped me find a fix for a problem that I've cursed and fought with for 30 years. All 6 drop lights in my shop have CFLs. I've only had one fail, from a glob of hot metal while cutting off some bolts..
I've found that the color quality, build quality and price are all over the map on CFLs. I've tried a few in my home and they are generally fine if I buy the "right" ones. I need to do some homework on the different ratings for color, etc. Many are too "blue" and are hard on the eyes. I got lucky with my "drop light" choice. The color and brightness was very comparable to an incandescent, I wish I had paid attention to the specs.

Your 1N4007 in series with the 100 watt bulb initally struck me as the ultimate in "cheap SOB" technology" until I saw how old the bulb was. You're almost in the running with the Fire Station that has the 100+ YO carbon filament bulb still burning. Maybe you should contact the bulb manufacturer...

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