Automotive Air Conditioning Information Forum (Archives)

Provided by www.ACkits.com

We've updated our forums!
Click here to visit the new forum

Archive Home

Search Auto AC Forum Archives

Need a little R-12 this should last you a little while Pages: 12

MrBillPro on Sat August 23, 2003 10:33 AM User is offlineView users profile

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2552359825&category=42910

-------------------------
Don't take life seriously... Its not permanent.

Edited: Sat August 23, 2003 at 10:38 AM by MrBillPro

mccorry on Sat August 23, 2003 10:39 AM User is offline

LOL! Thats a LOT of freon!

-------------------------
Steve

'69 Daytona Yellow RS/SS-350

'95 Sebring Silver Z28
http://www.wideopenwest.com/~mccorry

NickD on Sat August 23, 2003 10:44 AM User is offline

Ha, they must be crazy, $20.00 a pound and the cylinders are not included. It looks old, they probably paid 20 cents a pound for it in bulk. Nice profit margin if they can find someone dumb enough to bid.

MrBillPro on Sat August 23, 2003 10:46 AM User is offlineView users profile

Man now that was when a Camaro was a Camaro nice ride!!! I had a buddy in High School that has one like that, I graduaded in 1969 I had a 65 GTO when i graduated I hated to sell that car but for a 70 SS 396 Chevelle I did not cry for long

-------------------------
Don't take life seriously... Its not permanent.

MrBillPro on Sat August 23, 2003 10:47 AM User is offlineView users profile

I know Nick I just figured that up $20.00 a lb. that is crazy! What do they expect you to do return the cylinders in the year 2525 when you might get around to using or selling it all

-------------------------
Don't take life seriously... Its not permanent.

Edited: Sat August 23, 2003 at 10:49 AM by MrBillPro

NickD on Sat August 23, 2003 11:10 AM User is offline

Ha, Bill, I was expecting that after they got your money, they would get a big fan, open the valves, and blow the stuff in your direction.

Tony on Sun August 24, 2003 1:14 AM User is offlineView users profile

They'll ship it to you in glad bags.
That's just nuts.


-------------------------
BAT Auto Technical

JJM on Mon August 25, 2003 9:50 PM User is offline

I don't know, but somehow I doubt all that R-12 is virgin. I'd find it hard to believe that stuff could've been sitting around for that long, and only now it's going up for sale.

To think, about 20 years ago that quantity would only be worth about $3,500. Nice return on investment.

Unfortunately, can you imagine all the penguins that will be killed by that stuff? Sheeeeezh! Well, if that don't make 'em fly, what will?



Look, sometimes they do fly!

Joe

bohica2xo on Mon August 25, 2003 10:13 PM User is offline

Interesting. The seller states that the R12 is "bulk". Depending on the type of cylinder it is in, the cylinders have either a 5 year, or 10 year test cycle. If they are out of certification, they can NOT be transported on any public highway according to DOT rules.

So, let's see here.... MVAC phaseout of R12, 1993 model year. I will bet that those tanks are over 10 years old. That means that the R12 must be removed from them in place - sounds like a HAZMAT job to me. I would be glad to clean up his waste dump, for a fee of say 5 bucks a pound.

I seem to remember a special tax imposed on anyone with large quantities of R12 on hand. I wonder if this guy qualifies for that?

I hope he owns the property where the tanks are stored. He can't move them.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

JJM on Mon August 25, 2003 10:39 PM User is offline

Damn, Bohica, you are sharp! That's an excellent point, the tanks I'm sure are out of certification by now, assuming the stuff is virgin. I guess that's why the auction states the cylinders are not included. Only how the heck are you gonna get the stuff from his tanks, without contaminationg?

I hear HAZMAT job for this stuff too.

Love to know the story of how he acquired all that R-12?

Joe

bohica2xo on Mon August 25, 2003 11:38 PM User is offline

Thanks JJ. There are even more questions here. Those tanks look like worthingtons, 1000 pound capacity each.

Worthington Cylinders

There are 8 cylinders in the picture, so why 7000 pounds???? Are some tanks leaking??

If the R12 is virgin, there was 8000 pounds there at one time. The cylinders are in good shape, and clean. A good possibility they are virgin. If they are recovered, it was from a large chiller - no HVAC or MVAC shop uses a 1000 pound recovery tank....

As for the origin of the stuff, I doubt this guy has owned it very long. If you look at his E-Bay activity, you can see that he specializes in dish TV stuff. He currently has for sale the R12, and a waste processing machine.....

My guess is that he bought this stuff, probably at an auction - "gonna make millions!" But, after trying to get the stuff transported, found out the bitter truth.

I have dealt with HAZMAT people before. The waste company that owned it before him probably charged someone to haul it off a few years ago - out of date tanks and all (that tank has a 5 year certification - I checked) Many waste haulers cart stuff off for people that has value - and hang on to it. Just a guess, but it has happened before.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

Bigchris on Tue August 26, 2003 2:00 AM User is offline

It's fun to guess but it's more fun to know - so I asked him.
Do the tanks contain virgin or recycled Freon?
Are there 7 or 8 tanks?
Are the tanks Worthingtons?
When were the tanks last recertified?
How do you propose transporting "sold in bulk" material?
Can you supply proof that tax liability has been met?
I'll post his answers when/if he responds.

Edited: Tue August 26, 2003 at 2:04 AM by Bigchris

bohica2xo on Tue August 26, 2003 3:48 AM User is offline

Bigchris:
I asked him similar questions before I made that last post:

1) Is this virgin or recovered R12?
2) How did you measure the 7000 pounds?
3) What was the last test date on the tanks?

I have not seen an answer yet, but if I get a response, I will post it.

Perhaps someone should point him at this thread?

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

NickD on Tue August 26, 2003 9:17 AM User is offline

Ha, I was going to suggest, rather than speculate, "ask the seller a question". I was tempted to, but would be like pouring a trail of honey from an ant hill outside to the inside of my home. Ha, the EPA would be crawling in here like ants. Not to mention the DOT or the IRS.

Was contemplating asking him if he would split that order up a bit. What kind of adapters would those tanks need, so I can drive my car over and top it off with maybe three ounces. But then I said to myself, the heck with it, not even sure what's in those tanks, they don't seem to have a label nor a seal.

Ha, Chris, let us know if you get any visitors.

Bigchris on Tue August 26, 2003 11:53 AM User is offline

Ha, Nothing so far Nick. Think I'll print a picture of a Saudi flag and hang it over my computer. Then we'll all get to meet when our pictures are taken...

Edited: Tue August 26, 2003 at 11:56 AM by Bigchris

MrBillPro on Tue August 26, 2003 1:31 PM User is offlineView users profile

Do the tanks contain virgin

BigChris if they contain virgins well i might have to get a loan man 8 virgins at one time I would sure be doomed but what a way to go.

-------------------------
Don't take life seriously... Its not permanent.

MikeH on Tue August 26, 2003 1:50 PM User is offline

I must be getting old. I remember buying 30lb. cans of R12 for $5.00 and $30lb cans of R22 for $7.50. Where have the good times gone?

Bigchris on Tue August 26, 2003 5:59 PM User is offline

The same place as nickel Hershey Bars, 10-cent flashlight batteries and 2-dollar hookers I imagine. Which reminds me, Mr B I'd expect virgins to be dressed in white so don't get your hopes up.
No word yet, but you guys ask hard questions...

Bigchris on Thu August 28, 2003 1:57 AM User is offline

Well it looks like our inquiry had some effect! The original auction was shut down and the tanks relisted at:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2553949826
with a FAQ added that directly addresses the questions I sent! I haven't yet seen a response to my email but the seller is obviously scurrying to answer your questions. I noted that he doesn't seem to know the difference between recycled and reclaimed Freon.

The excise tax does only apply to virgin R12 but there is also a floor tax for quantities over 400lbs, and I don't know whether that applies only to virgin stock or reclaimed stock as well. I didn't have any luck looking that up on the EPA web site.

Nick, I haven't seen any strangers or government cars in the neighborhood yet but both our phones mysteriously lost dial tone for a couple of hours this morning and there was a helicopter with a TV camera hovering over the Burger King where I had lunch today. Of course the nightly news claimed it was covering a bank robbery in progress a couple of blocks away but we know differently don't we.

Billy on Wed January 14, 2004 8:14 PM User is offlineView users profile


my luck I'd buy it and it would all be mixed with r-22!

-------------------------
Let them sit in their air-conditioned homes & fuss about it being 80 degrees, when I'm outside working on it & it's 95 degrees!
let them suffer!
let them all suffer!!

k5guy on Wed January 14, 2004 11:58 PM User is offline

Chris, if I recall correctly from my 609 studies, it only applies to virgin. Reclaimed/recycled gas can be re-used and sold without excise. They are trying to promote people re-using and reclaiming gas, so it makes sense that they don't tax it. It should be in the real 609 regs. I would give you a link to it, but the EPA site appears to be not working. I wonder if it's running Windows???

-------------------------


Send me e-mail

Bigchris on Thu January 15, 2004 1:04 AM User is offline

You're right. That was a very old post and I eventually found the answer but didn't go back and straighten it out.

If the site is not up, I would deduce that they are not running any O/S.

NickD on Thu January 15, 2004 9:00 AM User is offline

I feel the EPA is a far better target for slamming than MS and get a lot more satisfaction slamming the EPA for their crazy unsupported analogies but mostly lack of being clear and direct in the regulation of refrigerants. On one hand, the EPA claims they are only interested in the release of refrigerants into the atmosphere, on the other, they are attempting to make engineering changes to the AC system with no credible technical background. They did job out the 609/608 certification to 3rd party sources that are expected to interpret their very ambiguous regulations. They are putting the responsibility for the release of refrigerants at the very bottom of the ladder, the technicians, when in fact, a technician only sees a system that already lost practically all of it's refrigerant.

Their prediction charts to ozone depletion are super exaggerated and counter all scientific laws, they are more of a political than a scientific agency and tend to stretch the laws beyond what either the people or congress had in mind. Such is typical of any government agency.

If R-12 is such a hazard, those responsible for making and using it should have had the burden of converting it. As it is, grandma and that single mother with a couple of babies are limited incomes were made responsible. This is not right.

Bigchris on Thu January 15, 2004 7:29 PM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: NickD
I feel the EPA is a far better target for slamming than MS
Yes but you already own the franchise on that and what could we say that would improve on what you've already said?

Do you suppose crack smoke affects the ozone hole...?

NickD on Fri January 16, 2004 8:44 AM User is offline

I was hoping someone would explain what the EPA is doing in the refrigerant end besides suing shops for sham conversions. No refrigerants were released into the atmosphere when I read the charges that were once on the net. The EPA is also constantly changing the sites so you have to really dig to find out what they want.

Back to Off Topic Chat

We've updated our forums!
Click here to visit the new forum

Archive Home

Copyright © 2016 Arizona Mobile Air Inc.