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I purchased a brand new car! Pages: 12

NickD on Fri August 29, 2003 7:56 AM User is offline

Year: 2004
Make: Chevrolet
Model: Calvalier
Engine Size: 2.2L
Refrigerant Type: R-134a
Ambient Temp: 75*F
Pressure Low: It works
Pressure High: ?

Can't believe it, last time I purchased a new car was in 1967. I was after a basic four door sedan, but the sports coupe caught my eye with the 16" tires, alloy wheels, and had everything I wanted except power windows, locks, and remote entry plus some overpriced sound system. I didn't want an AT and that car was there brand new on the lot. I wanted white or silver, this one was red, but what the heck, it looked good.

The four door sedan with 14" tires just didn't appeal to me, and asked myself, why a four door, I am not hauling six kids around anymore. And the four door just had an AM radio and no cruise. I liked the spoiled on the coupe, plus it's a lot more fun to wash and wax a coupe.

I put 22 miles on this brand new car last night, the gear shift lever was as good or better than any Honda I had ever driven, car was very quiet, I did take it up to 65 mph on the interstate remembering it was a brand new car, but was in 5th gear and the engine was barely reving, it has a tach. I tried the AC though I may have to take a course in reading Icon, put found the green AC switch that you can turn on and off at will. R-134a works. The CD player had plenty of bass, and good blow my ears off, didn't detect the usual distortion. Car did have PS and PB although they don't put this on the sticker anymore. Seats were very comfortable, and no problem hand cranking the window nor reaching over to lock the one other door, the trunk had a Japanese style mechanical release, and GM is using a Honda key that works either way finally. I liked the car, handled nice, good solid feel, quiet, but perhaps would adjust the clutch a tad. Time to hack over the price.

This was a shock, the sticker price needed dealers prep charges, transportation, some other junk, title transfer, and licensing. The biggest shock was sales tax that was taken off the top before all rebates. Suddenly was looking at $17.3K. I questioned adding the tax before rebate, but was assured it was the law, the bastards, not going to pay that much for any car. I gave my GM card, showed I owned a couple of GM vehicles, and they subtracted all the rebates. Final bottom line price was $8,199.92. Said let me think it over, also had them do that four door, it was only $400.00 cheaper, even though that car was stripped, some kind of dealer interchange price had to be added to it and would have wanted to spend a couple hundred more on it just to add cruise. And those 14" tires looked like caster wheels under that car.

Walked around the lot looking to see what $8 would buy, plus the hours I had spent on auto trader, ha, maybe a 96 Civic with a zillion miles on it. Hondas break too, should know, I just took my 86 to the junk yard that morning. I didn't get a cent for it, but didn't have to pay to get rid of it. Called many friends, no one wanted it even for free. I didn't want to replace all the fuel lines, brake lines, and couldn't even jack the sucker up anymore, and the exhaust was falling off, Plus the interior was dry rotted out. But it still ran like a top with 190K on it. It did not have PS or PB.

A young friend of my son came over two weeks ago to show off his 1992 Sunfire coupe that caught my attention, it was a repo that he thought he got a good deal on from a local used car dealer. First thing I noticed is that the back tires were half worn compared to the fronts, that didn't make sense for a FWD, he said his dad told them to rotate the tires. This car was rodded. He asked me questions about the car, I said, I don't have the slightest idea, read the owners manual. I didn't have one. We came into the house on got on Helms, with shipping and all, it was another 50 bucks. I had him called the dealer, the dealer so much as told him to go to hell to supply the manual, so he purchased it off line. Two years old, 20K on the clock, and after hearing what kind of trade in he got from his 92 Bravada, he ended paying $13.5 K for that car, plus he better think about buying new brakes and tires.

That $8.2K for a brand new car with 27 miles on the clock didn't seem too bad anymore, so I walked back in and said, you have a deal. will pick up the car this afternoon. Maybe I am cracking up, never thought I would ever buy a brand new car again. Ha, 36K, 3 year bumper to bumper warrant, six years on rust, that should give me something to bitch about if I need service.

Mitch on Fri August 29, 2003 8:23 AM User is offline

Congratulations! A guy deserves a new car every 30-35 years. My last new car until I got my 2001 Grand Prix Coupe was 1969 and I still have the 69. I was impressed with the operation of the GP so I bought my wife a new 2002 Olds. Two new cars in 9 months! I was looking at a Honda Accord for her, but the price difference between the Olds and Honda was outrageous. $10K more for the similarly equipped Honda. There must be some gold parts in the engine or somewhere else hidden from view.

For 30+ years our two everyday cars were a 69 Chevy and a 66 Mustang. I am doing a lot less tinkering and repairing these days. The only thing I need to do now is check the air and change the oil. I am following the cars' oil change computer advice so I only do that every 6-8K miles.

Bugs me about the sales tax on the rebates too. Not only that, but in CA, car license fees are based on the sales price and sales price is before the rebate. I will be paying license fees on the rebate value for the life of the vehicle.

I have a friend who still has his first car - a 1930 Model A that he got at 19 years of age in 1968 and he has never bought a new car.

Edited: Fri August 29, 2003 at 8:37 AM by Mitch

NickD on Fri August 29, 2003 9:13 AM User is offline

Chevy actually put a roller chain in place of those infamous rubber timing belts that could ruin an interference engine, it has 100K spark plugs, and the exhaust is all stainless steel. It has four wheel disk brakes and a parking brake that actually holds, I though back at my 78 Fleetwood with four wheel disks putting my full weight on that pedal and the sucker would still roll down a 1% grade. I can see the ground under the hood of this Cavalier. Concerned about the all aluminum engine, is does have cast iron liners and maybe won't have HG problems with an aluminum head on an aluminum block. It's a 2,700 pound car with plenty of space.

Was looking at a 2004 Suburban while waiting, $50K with $10K worth of rebates, gosh that thing was big, wouldn't want that for running into town. It was seven passenger where the little Calvalier is a five passenger, but could by five Cavaliers for the price of one Suburban. Ha, in a head on, wish I had a Suburban.

I went against all my principles and did not ask about the fuel pump access plate.

MikeH on Fri August 29, 2003 9:26 AM User is offline

Both of my daughters, 16 and 19, drive newer cars than my wife and I. The 16-year-old drives a 1997 Explorer Sport that gets 22mpg around town. The 19-year-old drives a 2003 Ranger Edge that gets 27-30mpg around town and 40mpg on the hwy.

You guys do know that it is not necesary to break in engines anymore. Technology has developed cylinder walls and ring composits that don't require it. Just change the oil on a regular basis and that engine will last. I'm not big on Dodge but a friend of mine that runs a shop recently rebuilt a Dodge Diesel that had 300,000 miles on it. He said there was nothing wrong with it, really. The owner was concerned that it was overdue to fail. Just goes to show that not everything American made goes bad.

NickD on Fri August 29, 2003 9:58 AM User is offline

Ha, all my married kids have two brand new cars in their driveway, well at least one new vehicle. I guess ever since the 70's energy crisis, fuel economy has been a concern, though back then I purchased both a gas gluzzing 73 Fleetwood and a 72 Ford motorhome. But they were giving those away. The Fleetwood ended up at a wrecking yard, but I sold the motor home for nearly twice the price I paid for it after owning it for ten years with lots of use. I was after the five speed for both fuel economy and something to do while driving. Gosh, driving has become boring over the years. They even took off the spark advance and the choke lever, can you believe that? Ha, have to figure out how to add a manual choke with a FI engine.

Ironically my dealer received shipments of the 2004 cars before the literature, the truck just came in to drop that off. But I will be after the shop and electrical manual soon, don't think I will find one on ebay.

Now I wonder if I am going to remove all the bolts and put on anti-sieze?

bohica2xo on Fri August 29, 2003 12:35 PM User is offline

Congratulations Nick.

As for the anti sieze - it sounds like a lot of labor. On assemblies that I know will be exposed to the weather, I usually spray the exposed fasteners with LPS#3. This stuff starts out thin enough to wick into the first thread, but dries out to a waxy coating. I usually re-coat everything about 60 days after the first coat when I can. It does keep the water from creeping into the threads.

Obviously, if I put the unit together myself - everything gets a good coat of anti-sieze.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

steve325is on Fri August 29, 2003 2:57 PM User is offline

Congratulations, I just bought a new car last Tuesday. It is a silver Mazda Protege5, 5-speed, with ABS and side airbag package. It is a zippy little car, handles well, and has great brakes. The Altima radiator split a week ago, and took the headgasket with it. I am not interested in fixing it, so buying something else was necessary. Hopefully, the BMW won't turn into a money pit soon, that is my daily driver.

I drove an automatic Cavalier at the GM "Auto Show in Motion" a while back. I have always hated Cavaliers and Sunfires, to the point of refusing to take one as a rental car. The 2.4 Quad4 was fun, but the 2.2 pushrod bottom-feeder motor was awful. The new 2.2 DOHC EcoTec that is in your car really impressed me, good power, and very smooth and quiet. Everything that the old 2.2 wasn't. That engine is used in several platforms, and you will be seeing more of it in the near future.

Take another look under your car, I think Cavaliers still have rear drum brakes.

Steve

NickD on Fri August 29, 2003 4:19 PM User is offline

Correct on the rear drums, was too busy last night choosing which car, dealing, verifying rebates, and trying to decide. Ha, set a new record at the dealer for rebates and redemptions, thought I would never use my GM club earnings.

One pleasant surprise when I was handed the keys, I asked, where is the chip for that pass key thingy, salesman said, they dropped that, too many problems with it.

Mitch on Fri August 29, 2003 7:29 PM User is offline

Nick,

If you have a rubber top on your key, it is probably a transponder. The ones with the chip and exposed contacts were resistors that were read by the PCM. The GM web site says you have the PASSlock theft-deterrent system. Not sure what that is.

A worthwhile addition to your new ride is an electrochromatic dimming mirror. I got used to them on the rental cars and had to have one on my GP when I got it. I backfitted one on the wife's Olds and one on my 87 El Camino. You can get them on ebay brand new for 1/3 or less the price of the dealer's parts dept. and they are the same OEM brand, Gentex or Donnelly.

I got the ones with map lights, compass, and outside temp. Even the wife likes the outside temp display.

The mirror kit is complete with all the wiring plugs etc. Easy installation, it slips on the standard GM wedge mount. Hardest part on the Olds was finding a place to put the temp sensor wire thru the firewall. Cars are pretty seled up these days. No problem on the 87. Just found an existing hole and pushed it thru.

If you are interested, I can give you the contact that I got mine from. Or search eBay for Gentex mirror or Donnelly mirror.

Edited: Fri August 29, 2003 at 8:06 PM by Mitch

Bigchris on Fri August 29, 2003 9:04 PM User is offline

Nick, congratulations on the new ride!
Lessee, girl friend, new red car...sounds like your living pretty high on the hog these days!

Mitch on Fri August 29, 2003 9:06 PM User is offline

Who was the first to use the double sided key on a car?

I thought it was Ford.

There was a minor flap a couple of years ago about Lincoln copying the Mercedes power seat controls of the little seat replicas on the door. Don't know if this is true, but the auto mags said it was originally a Lincoln invention (design?) that was licensed to and used by MB before it was ever used on a Lincoln.

Nick, my sister is finding life much cheaper in NC than in New Jersey. House taxes are 1/3 or less and car insurance very much less. Snows very rarely there, so they don't have to maintain the snow blower any more. Maybe you should try a new state too!

Edited: Fri August 29, 2003 at 9:09 PM by Mitch

NickD on Fri August 29, 2003 11:19 PM User is offline

Ha, my thought on the Cavalier was to keep it basic, after reading about all the goodies, AC, PS, and PB are standard as is the five speed MT, just wanted cruise control added. Ended up with a bunch more stuff. The Bravada, DeVille, T-Bird, and Supra are all loaded vehicles, but only the Bravada has both the compass and OAT. On airplanes, OAT is a simple thermometer mounted on on corner of the windshield, and it's very handy to have a compass. My DeVille has the LCD type dimming mirror, the Bird uses a photocell that drives a tilt motor, the spare tire blocks the rear view in the Bravada, so who cares. LOL. The Supra goes so fast, don't need a rear view mirror especially if a Corvette is trying to keep up with me on a curvy road. LOL.

On sure whether the Cavalier has the Passlock system or not, the vehicle sticker says it has, the salesman said they dropped it. Guess I could have a standard key made and try it. It does have the rubber capped key, and just one key for the entire vehicle, no lock on the glove compartment. It does have the electric opening trunk that I didn't know about until I read the manual quickly and found where they hid the button.

I could not find an underhood label for the AC system, have to look again, but the manual said it holds 1.5 pounds of R-134a. A nice touch on the relay box under the hood is it's silkscreened identifying all the relays, blower, fuel pump, etc. I noticed in traffic the temp gauge held right at 195*F, there appears to be a thermistor in the radiator tank. Wonder if they are finally sensing tank temperature for fan control. My God, I purchased a car without a radiator cap.

This is just about the quickest car I have ever purchased in my life, I had the DeVille in my garage for three days checking out every system and making a list. Just got the urge yesterday, called my GM Card first to see what I would get, called the dealer, drove over, looked a couple of cars, like the one I purchased, test drove it, and spend the rest of the time dealing. I just figured couldn't go wrong with what little I paid for it. Ha, that little thing has five cup holders in it for each passenger. Learn that 80% of the components after finding a sticker in the glove compartment are made in the USA, 15% in Mexico, and that five speed comes from Italy.

The owners manual is quite thick with lots of DIY maintenance, ha, not bad for a maintenance free car. The PS pump doesn't even look like a PS pump and is driven off the camshaft at the rear of the engine. The belt just drives the water pump, alternator and compressor, tiny little thing. Read the section of break-in, you can drive at any speed you want, just don't drive at a constant speed for the first 500 miles. Ha, better break it in in town.

My first concern was couldn't find a trip odometer, saw a plastic stick sticking out of the IP, pushed that, and presto, the regular odometer switched to a trip. After thinking for a bit, I held the button down for five seconds, then it reset back to zerol. Also took me a bit to figure out how to get it in reverse, a collar that was blended in under the gear shift know had to be lifted first.

It seems to be a nice little car, but think I would prefer the deVille on long trips, but if the price of gas keeps going up, may be glad I have the Cavalier. It seems to be geared like my old 85 Accord cranking 2,500 rpm at 70 mph. Not sure what this thing would get, but that Accord was always good for 45 mpg, and this car is far more streamlined.

Mitch on Fri August 29, 2003 11:36 PM User is offline

I had a rental one time that came with 3 keys. One black rubber covered, one gray rubber covered, the other plain. The plain one would rotate the ignition lock cylinder but would not start the engine. I couldn't figure it out for a while because the rubber ones just looked like a convenient covering.

The gray keys are valet keys that will do everything except allow a copy to be made for future reference (like in your driveway late at night).

The black rubber keys are master keys and will allow duplicate transponders to be matched to the black key.

Plain keys will only open the doors and trunk.

NickD on Sat August 30, 2003 9:29 AM User is offline

You would think they would stamp PassLock on these keys or on the ignition switch. I am still plowing through the owners manual but didn't find anything on special keys. The remote entry section states when you buy a new transmitter, have to take your car to the dealer. Course says the same thing in the 93 Bravada owners manual, but you can program in new transmitters by adding a jumper to the diagnostic connector, some of the guys on batauto say you need a special scanner for this now.

Anyway the remote entry in the Bravada was crap, kept on locking up, the 30 buck aftermarket unit is far superior and that came with two very well built transmitters, since I installed that, no problems. I am not keen on remote entry, just more junk in my pocket to haul around and more batteries to buy and replace and when it's dark, have more problems finding the button than the key slot.

Learned that those tabs in the package tray were for hooking up baby seats, nice touch. The dash was loaded with labels warning that kids under 12 damn better sit in the back as that air bag would kill them. I started a folder to save all these labels.

But why 12 years of age? Shouldn't they specified a certain weight, height, and physical condition status of the RF passenger? I think even today, Gary Coleman has to sit in the back and he is over 40. Amazing that I got a new car that cheap with two air bags, knew of guys that spend $1,500 just replacing one.

Sure strange buying a brand new vehicle, normally at this time would be making a list of parts to buy, ha, even the wiper blades are brand new. And according to Chevy, don't have a thing to worry about for the next three years.

Boy, did they bury the high side port on this car, bet we get a lot of questions on this one. Ha, it's there, just spend a half a day looking for it.

NickD on Sat August 30, 2003 12:32 PM User is offline

It's crazy, was looking at my invoice, from that $8,199.16 cents bottom line, the dealer only got $7,368.78 for the car, the rest when for state taxes and license and title fees.

This car was made in July of 2003, but yet it's a 2004 vehicle, the VIN, shocker sticker, title, all say it's a 2004. The bottom line sticker price is $15,780, but the cars made a month later with the same exact equipment now carry a price of $16,300.00. Inflation?

They did stick on an extra $77.50 to the MSRP price tag for dealers prep charge, for this, that did top off the tank, that was about 25 bucks, plus the cleaned it up after all the dust it picked up riding on the truck.

But actually I paid $7,400 for this car. For the fun of it, I put that amount in Auto Trader to see what I could get for that amount. Came up with a 2000 Cavalier with 37K on it or a 1993 Civic with 90K on it.

So what is the price markup on a new vehicle? And why are used cars so expensive? Honda's wear out too, should know, owned enough of them. In 1957 a new Chevy loaded would run about $2,500 retail, a 54 Chevy wasn't worth $400, no one wanted Power?glide even with a car with 30K on it. And anything older than that was in the 50-100 buck range. Ha, would buy a car just to get the tires off it and resell it to an unobservant buyer sticking on my old tires. Had to consider the two buck title transfer fee as well.

It was only within the last 20 years when the prices of used up junk became ridiculous. I feel, even at that, people took better care of their cars back then, today, the lots are full of wrecks.

Ha, Chevies in the 40's were notorious for that crazy vacuum assisted shift that didn't do much when it did work right, but was very expensive to repair. Would just dump all that garbage and put in a buck lever and they shifted fine. Was easy to find a nice clean Chevy for 10-15 bucks. For you younger kids, those were the good old days.

Karl Hofmann on Sun August 31, 2003 5:52 AM User is offlineView users profile

You must have given that salesman a really hard time to get the price down to $8199, well done!

I thought that I'd done well last year knocking the dealer down fom over £17000 to just over £13000 on the wifes RAV4 Diesel, but they have promised to buy it back in three years time for over £9000 (dealer servicing is a must and price will depend on milage)

I would guess that your Cavalier is pretty close mechanically to our Vauxhall/ Opel Vectra, they sell by the shed load here and give realatively few problems. The engines and gearboxes are as tough as old boots. My theory on selling cars with a very low mark up is that the dealer expects to make his money back on servicing and once the car is out of warranty, repairs to the minor bits that go wrong, Ha! I heard a Peugeot dealer quote over £50 to change a bulb in the clock on a Peugeot 306 a few weeks ago.

Enjoy your new Cavalier Nick.

As Bigchris noted you have a new woman, a new car.....You're not going all young on us now, are you?

-------------------------
Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

Mitch on Sun August 31, 2003 9:58 AM User is offline

I'm convinced that they are almost giving the cars away and hope to make the profit on parts and service. A friend of mine is about to buy and S-10 mostly because he can get it so cheap. He can get the big rebate, the GM loyalty discount, use his GM card bonus, and still get the GM employee discount.

They may have to pay him to take it off their hands.

The rebate is somewhat of a scam because they are raising the list prices while raising the rebate, but we pay tax on the rebate, and license fees in some states so a $15K car with a $3K rebate is more expensive than a $12K car. GM admits they are using a bit of psychology with the rebates and that total transaction prices are up because a lot of folks spend the perceived savings on additional accessories, or even a bigger vehicle.

NickD on Sun August 31, 2003 10:26 AM User is offline

Actually very little dealing on my part, this car sat on the lot for a month and was stickered at $520.00 cheaper than the newest ones with the last price increase. There was a $1,000.00 cash discount plus another $7486.72 in rebates including, $750.00 GM loyalty, I had to bring proof that I owned a GM car. Now there was some debate about this as I own two GM cars, so I thought I should have gotten $1,500.00, but he showed me their rules and only one GM car ownership is allowed. I also had $3,736.72 in GM credit card earnings, now I have the old card with no limits, the new card would only permit a $1,000.00 redemption on a Cavalier. The balance was rebates that anyone could get of $3,000.00, but that ended last Friday. Ha, would be my luck that next Tuesday they will be offering $5,000 in rebates. So from the latest price of this car, it came down from $16,300 to $7,400 just in rebates. But I had to pay 5% sales tax on $15,780.00 that jacked the price way up again plus another $85.00 in license and title fees, $40.00 now for a title transfer, that use to be two bucks in the typewriter days.

Now the dealer has to type out the form, he e-mails that to the DOT, the DOT computer bangs out the title, I guess someone puts it in an envelop with a printed 37 cent stamp on it and mails it to me. This can take two months. For two bucks, someone had to hand type it back then. He also called my GM Card to make sure they would get their money for them from my account, that was nice as I didn't have to do that with proof of purchase and all that other nonsense plus wait six months.

I spent another ten bucks on the car yesterday, GM does not provide rear mud guards, I found exact matching mud guards at my Fleet Farm store, the car came with front mud guards. Picking up highway stones would murder the underside of the back bumper.

I looked at all the GM cards, with the Cavalier parked next to the DeVille, the DeVille, a large luxury car is not even a foot longer, weighs only 900 pounds more and still only carries five passengers, a new loaded DeVille still runs $58,000, only has a very little extra room, but does have all kinds of flashing lights that tends to jack up the price. I personally feel my 1992 is a far more classier looking car, so not much motivation to buy a new one.

I was pleased with the tires on this Cavalier, actually a namebrand tire that is listed on the web, $400.00 worth of tires, and that much in the allow wheels, least I know where $800.00 worth of stuff is in this car. My last new car used those cheap tires that would blow in 10,000 miles and you had to replace all four. There is strange stuff in this car, like a reservoir tank in front of the fuel tank with hoses and wires going to it. Must be part of that vacuum emissions thing where you get a red light if you forget to put on your gas cap.

I removed the back seat and didn't find any loose change, no candy wrappers either, but did find a perfect spot for a fuel pump access plate that wasn't there. The side panels were dusty so I did the entire interior, all plastic with Formulae 2001, now it shines like new.
I dropped the split rear seats and could stretch out to take a nap and thoughts of adding a small refrigerator, toilet, sink, cooking stove entered my mind. Ha, room for two.

The last three new cars I had purchased were all badly rusted before the last payment, the Cavalier claims to use all double side galvanized steel with a six year, 100,000 mile rust free warranty. Kicking around getting the car undercoated, but that may trap in moisture.

I didn't know they made women like the one I found anymore, or she found me, a very attractive, hard working frugal woman, she would like to have her own garden and grow and can vegetables and is more than happy to buy her clothes at Wal-Mart. She is not accustomed to have a man ask her opinion. I left buying this car up to her. She wanted the five speed for fuel economy, a woman after my own heart. She already has a five speed.

I was ready to throw in the towel, could barely walk last year, this back surgery worked and very active again, with a mentally ill ex out of my life that ran up bills faster than I could pay them off, maybe there is a second chance in life. I was done with women until I met her, see what happens. I still believe in helping people and its nice to get a thanks every once in awhile.

MrBillPro on Sun August 31, 2003 4:40 PM User is offlineView users profile

Nick, thanks for your posts some are tough for me to understand "but that's ok" but then just when i am about to give up on reading them because they are pretty far out there for this old Country Boy to really understand you do a 180 are able come down to the things that really touch my heart and that is just trying to survive this old world the best we can and try and find a realistic way to do that. You just continue to give me a lot of prospective on life for free and I sincerely appreciate it, I feel this forum is really Blessed to have you as a part of it as with many others here I have never been on any other forum that has the hospitality this one has thanks to all!

PS
I haven't told you yet but congratulations on the new lifestyle, while keeping some of you old morals.

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Don't take life seriously... Its not permanent.

JJM on Tue September 02, 2003 10:59 PM User is offline

Congratulations on your new car! Drive it in good heath! Let me throw some cyber change and bills inside for good luck!

GM is definitely making a better car these days, from what I’ve seen, though I do hope you’ll keep your more “substantial” DeVille. I find it somewhat difficult seeing someone of your caliber driving a Cavalier though.

Did I read correctly in another of your posts that your Cavalier has the V7 compressor. I never understood why GM would put the R4 in a Caddy that clacks on and off, while putting a smooth V5 or V7 in a Chevy. One would think they’d put the better engineering in the Caddy. Perhaps “GM Tech” can shed some insight on this.

Speaking of those “chip” ignition keys that you brought up earlier, unless I’m missing something it seems are the ultimate in auto security, making theft all but impossible except by flatbed or tow. The only way I can see these systems being defeated is if the thief brings along an ECM for the particular vehicle with a programmed key. I don’t see any other way a vehicle of this type can be stolen. Who needs annoying alarms now, or is that just a false sense of security?

Joe

steve325is on Tue September 02, 2003 11:12 PM User is offline

From what I have been able to learn, this "next generation" of anti-theft system that Nick has in his new Cavalier no longer uses the "pellet" in the key. Instead, there is a sensor in the ignition lock, and another in the switch. The switch needs the sensor in the lock for the PCM to operate. If the lock is torn from the column, no start. The upside is that you no longer have a $50 ignition key that requires a scan tool to make work if a copy is made.

Steve

NickD on Wed September 03, 2003 12:15 AM User is offline

I am neither selling my DeVille nor my Supra Joe, I would never find cars like that in this good shape. Ha, when I get rid of car, like my 86 Civic, it heads straight for the junk yard, nothing left of it. My DeVille is using the HR6 compressor, very quiet and the cooling is adequate.

The PassLock system uses a passive chip, gosh I wish I have thought of that. RF engery fires that powerless chip that is rectified and filtered and each chip is encoded with a random generated code. Some are 24 bit for over 16 million combinations, but I don't feel the PassLock is that great as the key must also fit. There is just enough power stored to fire that code back to the sending unit where it is compared to the flashrom store reference. If it's a match, pop.

I am not sure what this Cavalier is using, the DeVille using the resistive chip has a complete separate module that energizes a relay completely the starter circuit. The entire module can be replaced with a jumper wire. The PassLock infers preventing voltage to the the fuel pump relay. Any brick will open the window for access to the hood and a jumper can be installed to bypass the relay.

The Cavalier came with a rather thick owners manual and GM openly admits that there is no way to prevent a thief from stealing your vehicle. A kid needing fix will just as soon use a brick or stick a gun in your face to get your key. From the many posts on batauto on this subject I feel these systems are doing a much better job of keeping the rightful owners from starting their vehicles.

Most of the owners manual is on "common sense" tips, perhaps to avoid a lawsuit, it's all in the manual and hundreds of pages of it. Don't park your car in a dark alley kind of thing, with some 25 pages on wearing seat belts. Lots more on using baby seats. Ha, the section on the sun roof states if you have an electrical failure you can't close it. I was on a moon roof kick for a long time and wouldn't buy a car unless it had one, but they all had a hand crank.

So how come they don't provide hand cranks with power windows and seats? Ha, I was fooling around with the child safety door locks on my DeVille, I had to climb over the front seat to get out.

Mitch on Wed September 03, 2003 12:38 AM User is offline

The real professional thieves always can figure out how to get around the popular commercially available or factory equipment anti-theft devices. That is why I always design my own unusual set up and don't tell anybody what it is.

I had an attempted theft of a 65 Cutlass convertible that they slashed the top to get into. Then they brought their own ignition switch and lock cylinder and plugged it into the wiring harness. The cops caught them in the act because the car wouldn't start and they spent too much time trying to figure it out.

A 66 Mustang disappeared out of my driveway about 10 years ago and I figured they must have towed it away. Before calling the cops, I decided to cruise around the neighborhood and I found it down the street with the ignition hot-wired, but it wouldn't run so they gave up and split.

Isn't a red car known as "ticket bait"?

Edited: Wed September 03, 2003 at 12:40 AM by Mitch

NickD on Wed September 03, 2003 12:50 AM User is offline

Ha, it was red or pay $6,000.00 more, rebates ended today and we did a state wide search. I don't feel the color of a car has anything to do with getting a ticket, cops and justices of the peace have to eat too and they are not fussy.

MikeH on Wed September 03, 2003 8:07 AM User is offline

In Texas, or, at least here locally, kids in shiney red cars get pulled over 5 times more frequently. Could it be that the cops think that if the car is bright red then the kid must have been doing something wrong, like speeding?

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