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This kind of attitude really burns me up

MrBillPro on Thu October 23, 2003 9:55 AM User is offlineView users profile

'92eddiebauerX Wrote this in the General Automotive A/C Questions so i though i would move my comments to here were it might be more appropriate for more feedback.

Year: 1992
Make: Ford
Model: Explorer
Engine Size: 3.8

My a/c clutch has seized and the dealer wants tons of money to repair. When I inquired about repairing it to run without a/c, they want me to buy a new clutch and compressor just to keep the belt running. Is there not a smaller belt size for engines that do not have a/c? could I not have they a/c components deleted and run a smaller serpentine belt?

any feedback is welcome, thanks





They want me to buy a new clutch and compressor just to keep the belt running.

Anyone that would want to help me fix a problem like they suggested to me that would show me a few things one that they don't care about the customer at all! and that I would wonder if they would even know how to do the repair period if they can't suggest a temp. repair for you because i would bet the bank this is not the first time they have encountered a customer inquiring about doing the same to get by until they could afford to fix it right. Integrity is something that can't be bought and something our customers tell us we have many times. I would do nothing to cause me a liability but if your broke I will do anything with all the knowledge I have to get you going until your back on your feet. Personally if all the co. in America would have keep this attitude we would not be flooded with illegal immigrants. It just really burns me up to see business out for just the almighty dollar most had to care at one time you would think just to get on the map."Unless it was handed down" I may never get rich with integrity or honesty but I have no problem sleeping at all and I still love what I do after 30 years burnout is not even in sight.

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Don't take life seriously... Its not permanent.

TRB on Thu October 23, 2003 10:00 AM User is offlineView users profile

My experience with dealer work is they are not out to help the customer but to make a profit for their place of business. I would change the pulley and use the original belt. This will offer the best results and you would have no liability as vehicle has not been altered.

It should also be stated that in this post you are getting one side of the story. This vehicle may have the bearing falling out with the hub dragging. Pulley could be wobbling all over so it was recommended by the dealer to do certain repairs. Customer has the option of doing the repairs or not. Just hope they charged a fair service fee!

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Edited: Thu October 23, 2003 at 10:04 AM by TRB

Bigchris on Thu October 23, 2003 12:04 PM User is offline

A dealership ALWAYS carries a higher cost burden for both parts and labor than an independent shop, and has to work with the skills on the floor on any given day. If the service advisor is told that the compressor must come off the vehicle to replace the clutch, then the labor hours involved may make compressor replacement his best option. And as Tim points out, there may be more to the story than what we've heard.

Once in a while a dealer can offer superior pricing on something like tires or brakes because of the volume discounts available from the manufacturer, but for the most part higher costs and thus prices are the norm. That's not attitude, that's just the reality of a "captive shop" versus an independent one.

TRB on Thu October 23, 2003 12:57 PM User is offlineView users profile

One point I'd bet the customer has no knowledge of is the hosel of the compressor bad. Replacing the compressor may be the only avenue if the pulley cannot seat correctly. I'm not defending the dealer by any means! But there could be issues that have not been addressed.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
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NickD on Thu October 23, 2003 1:01 PM User is offline

I have a couple of good dealers in town, least for buying parts, even cheaper than what the wrecking yard charges. But I would have to be trained as to how to take my vehicle to a dealer for repair. Haven't done that in almost 40 years and that was a mess back then, and that was supposingly warranty work on a new car.

I can't ever do just one thing to a vehicle, always find something else wrong that requires attention. So I seem to run up the bill even doing it myself.

Karl Hofmann on Thu October 23, 2003 2:51 PM User is offlineView users profile

I'll defend the dealer, but not the manufacturer. The main agent can only repair a vehicle the way that is set by the manufacturer, in the UK the discount that the main agent gets on parts depends on the parts sales for the previous month, clearly the manufacturer has established this as an incentive to shift parts. The design of many vehicles these days do not permit the by passing of overpriced but non essential components. I recently had a customer with a six year old Audi S6, compressor had failed a while ago and now the clutch bearing had failed, damaging the nose of the compressor, fitting a shorter belt was not an option and the price of the new Zexel compressor from Audi was over £1000 (Speed sensor fitted). Talk about holding a gun to the guys head!
Fortunately we were able to locate a reasonably priced compressor from a company who had four on the shelf and were anxious to get rid of them.

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

MrBillPro on Thu October 23, 2003 3:05 PM User is offlineView users profile

So i would suggest 92eddiebauerX needs to go to a reputable independent were they maybe have a different standard to follow like helping someone out without deep pockets. Yes i do somewhat agree that the dealers may have different standards or guidlines to follow. I will say this also just because they are a dealer, don't mean they know anymore about the cars there repairing than a good independent garage maybe 30 years ago the independents were limited, but today there is as much info out there as anyone wants to seek. The day i take my vehicle to a dealer is the day i will have my family commit me.

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Don't take life seriously... Its not permanent.

TRB on Thu October 23, 2003 3:09 PM User is offlineView users profile

There are very few cases where I would take my vehicle to a OEM dealership for repairs.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

Karl Hofmann on Thu October 23, 2003 5:14 PM User is offlineView users profile

Over here you have to go to the main agent to maintain the manufacturers warranty on new cars....Stitched like a kipper

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

TRB on Thu October 23, 2003 10:41 PM User is offlineView users profile

If vehicle was still under the factory warranty than I would suggest taking the vehicle to a dealership. Just like all trades there are good and bad. I'm sure there are some very fine mechanics that work for dealerships. In some cases the dealership may be the first to learn of a new procedure so there are some positives to an dealership.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

k5guy on Fri October 24, 2003 12:33 AM User is offline

I would add that a dealership has the attention of and access to the car company. A dealership can get a automotive engineer on the phone, if necessary. Sometimes for strange problems, you need someone in engineering.

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Bigchris on Fri October 24, 2003 2:32 AM User is offline

Dealerships are also the only place to get recalls and hidden warranties applied. I had the happy experience of getting all my fuel injectors, pressure regulator and filters replaced on a 8 or 9 year old Nissan, $1400 worth of parts and labor, for free by the dealer because of a "quiet" recall.

NickD on Fri October 24, 2003 6:17 AM User is offline

There must be a difference between small and large town dealers, come to think of it, I had most of my dealer problems in and around Chicago. A dealer working in a small town with the personnel living and going to the local churches risks getting tar and feathered if he screws his neighbors. They are a small local business with a limited customer base. I can't seem to deal with our Chevy dealer in town, but can get any GM part from our Buick dealer just as fast and much cheaper, the manager lives down the street. Always get good parts prices from my Ford dealer, but have yet to buy a car from them and tease them constantly that the day I do buy a car from them will be a miracle.

Had this crazy idea of setting up a dealership in town, but after I contacted the OE's for the required capital investment on the building, inventory and tools, just said, if I had that kind of cash, sure wouldn't hell open a dealership, but would retire on the French Riviera instead, it was crazy what they wanted and you had to meet their specifications.

When we got our 86 Maxima in 1992, as with any new used car, I wanted to pull all the injectors and test and clean them, quickly learned you don't change one injector as the entire system was hose crimped together, had to replace the whole assembly. We got by with fuel injector cleaner until they had that recall, wasn't that in the year 2000? Took them a day and half to replace the entire assembly and that recall wasn't that secret, but was surprised they would do that on a 14 year old car.

The labor rates at the dealerships seems to be out of proportion with everything else, but I don't feel the dealers are getting that money as every year they have to load up with those garbage electronic do-nothing devices and special purpose tools plus promotional items they are forced to buy just to stay in business. All that money is ending up in Detroit or Tokyo. I feel you have be insane to want to start a dealership.

MrBillPro on Fri October 24, 2003 10:57 AM User is offlineView users profile

Yes, maybe Dealerships may have some benefits but you will never convince me they will "ever" have the long term benefit as a good old mom and pop small garage with a knowledgeable mechanic. I don't think 92eddiebauerX with his1992 Ford Explorer was at the Dealership looking to get his fixed in warranty so all that talk is irrelevant to the original post. He went to the Dealership to get his truck a/c fixed "out of warranty" and i personally feel they wanted him to grab his ankles, all i was upset about was the fact they could not come up with some sort of temporary solution of any kind to get him back on the road at a reasonable cost this was my gripe. I do appreciate that some have found good in the Dealerships and I personally like to try and find good in all things and all people and I was not really literally slamming the Dealerships, just was upset because they cared more about the almighty dollar than the customer that could not afford maybe at this time to get it repaired correctly.


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Don't take life seriously... Its not permanent.

JEL on Fri October 24, 2003 11:15 AM User is offline

My daughter's 2000 VB Beetle had issues. This car complies with OBDII standards.

I took it to a trusted friend who owns his own independent shop. He pays big bucks to a well known source for his diagnostic software. The diagnosis he was able to come up with did not do the job (based on that expensive software).

I took it to the dealer where they were able to fix it quickly and relatively cheaply. Told my friend about it and he said many of the manufacturers (including VW) withhold a lot of info from the independents, which makes it difficult for the independent to service many brands where codes are involved.

Moral of the story: for the VW, I usually just bite the bullet and take it to the dealer. Another thing, at least with VW, if your battery needs to be replaced, as in the case where it doesn't have enough guts left to start the car but has enough to maintain the state of the computer system, you somehow need to maintain power to the computer while doing the change, or you will have to visit the dealer to get the stupid thing "re-programmed". The service rep commented that you could go to Sears and get a battery for less money, but you would still have to pay the dealer for 30 minutes work to get the programming done. Around here, they are charging $70/hour so you would suffer a $35 hit just to get them to make the thing happy.

The older OBDI system would just relearn what it needed as you drove it. My OBDI cars work just fine. Supposedly the OBDII standard was to get all manufacturers on the same page.... so what? Where is the benefit? If they withhold information as being "proprietary" then it is just another way to force you to pay their price.

Methinks the consumer get more and more screwed all the time...

Jim

TRB on Fri October 24, 2003 11:18 AM User is offlineView users profile

At one point in time or another I think we all have felt scr*wed by a dealership!

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

NickD on Fri October 24, 2003 11:40 AM User is offline

LOL, I don't feel that I was praising dealerships as much as I was criticizing the auto makers for running a dealership a very expensive operation. The bottom line as I tell my kids, what they are earning at their minimum wage jobs would have to work 16 plus hours for each hour they pay a mechanic. We may not be as quick, but certainly not that slow either.

Ironically both my daughter and her roommate had Honda's and they both sat out in the cold with no start problems. Her roommate's parents took her Honda to a dealership and got nailed for a $1,500.00 bill for a brand new alternator and battery. I already replaced the bearings and brushes in my daughter's car, just went to K-Mart and exchanged her battery for a free new one, and told her she has got to start her vehicle least once a week, preferably on not a subzero day. K-Mart never asked me if that battery froze due to discharge and I was too dumb to tell them.

Of key importance is how the vehicle is maintained and driven, you don't gain any time when slamming on the gas and brake pedal between traffic lights. But you sure tear the hell out of the vehicle and waste a lot of gas. My boys grumbled when they first got their cars with my insistence that everything in the belt drive train will be pulled, all bearings checked and either replaced or regreased. They have limited life and they would be in for either huge towing charges or very expensive repairs. Where a nickles worth of grease can save all that grief. It's hard work, good exercise, but can save a lot of money. We go through the entire vehicle this way.

Now if I can only find a way to prevent rust, perhaps moving to AZ is the answer.

Bigchris on Fri October 24, 2003 11:58 AM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: NickD

Had this crazy idea of setting up a dealership in town, but after I contacted the OE's for the required capital investment on the building, inventory and tools, just said, if I had that kind of cash, sure wouldn't hell open a dealership, but would retire on the French Riviera instead, it was crazy what they wanted and you had to meet their specifications.
........I feel you have be insane to want to start a dealership.
........
We got by with fuel injector cleaner until they had that recall, wasn't that in the year 2000? Took them a day and half to replace the entire assembly and that recall wasn't that secret, but was surprised they would do that on a 14 year old car.
You not only have to meet their initial specifications to get the business open, but then you've got monthly quotas to meet for all aspects of the business! It's never really your business because someone else is always setting priorities for you. But if you fail, all your employees go down the drain with you.

Yep, your mind is like a steel trap! It was 2000 and in my case it was an '87 ZX that got the benefit.

Tim, you're right about that, we all have, but it never hurts to walk a few steps in the other guy's shoes before deciding that.

In Jim's case, he's been screwed by the manufacturer with an outrageously poor design that may or may not have been an intentional move to keep him coming back for VW dealer service. Here again, I don't have the full story, but mandatory dealer reprogramming for a dead battery sure sounds ugly!

NickD on Sat October 25, 2003 8:57 AM User is offline

The dealer told me that a "special" factory rep had to be present to oversee and inspect the installation of the injector assembly, but I checked over there work anyway, they did do a good job as I couldn't find any missing or loose screws. All the screws were replaced not substituting a dry wall screw as if very common to find after a "professional" repair. And all the hose and cable routing was correct.

They did screw around with the engine idle and ours was running rough, but I knew how to adjust that, the Nissan was strange in that respect with a mixture adjustment idle control screw on a FI car. The O2 sensor was also strange, that wasn't sensed, but a timer was used instead.

It was a decent car, kind of miss our Maxima, I kept records of all the parts we put into it that wasn't that much, excluding gas, oil, and our labor, and with depreciation and the cost of parts, it ended up costing us 2.7 cents a mile. Not bad when a new car can cost a buck a mile for the same thing. It just starting rusting out that I have never learned how to deal with, so that is why we got rid of it. But the interior was still like new.

That Nissan dealer is no more, Nissan really went down hill over the years with lots of reliability problems and we also live in Ford pickup country and if you drive anything else around here, you are a foreigner.

Ha, nothing like going to a grocery store and watching a family of seven pile into that single bench seat of a Ford pickup with groceries spilt all over the bed at the rear.

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