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Learning how to drive an MT.

NickD on Sat February 14, 2004 10:00 PM User is offline

Year: 2004
Make: Chevrolet
Model: Cavalier
Engine Size: 2.2 L
Refrigerant Type: R-134a
Ambient Temp: -11*F
Pressure Low: 1 psi
Pressure High: 1 psi

I have to drive under a viaduct where they dug deep under the railroad tracks that parallel the main highway. Consequently, the road is at a steep angle by the stop sign, and sure enough, the guy behind me is inches away. I recall driving British sports cars, by the way, where is Tom at? Those cars had the accelerator pedal raised so you could put your right foot on the service brake and accelerator pedal than just tilt your foot releasing the brake while slowly applying gas while releasing the clutch with your left foot.

No way in the Cavalier. So how do you start off with a situation like this without rolling back, or over reving the engine and riding the clutch? I recall taking my drivers test in a 1937 Olds where the tester picked such a road, I just snap my foot off the brake, revved the engine and rode the clutch, but that is not good on the clutch.

Is it okay to cheat and use the console mounted parking brake? Just holding the release button close, then ease that off while applying mild pressure to the gas while releasing the clutch? Or is there another way?

Edited: Sat February 14, 2004 at 10:22 PM by NickD

Ted2 on Sun February 15, 2004 1:17 AM User is offlineView users profile

Don't understand why using the parking brake would be considered cheating. Using whatever means you have to maintain control of the vehicle while avoiding abusing it only makes sense to me.

That is the procedure I use. If there is a better way, I will also be interested in hearing about it.

Ted

Bigchris on Sun February 15, 2004 3:23 AM User is offline

I'm with Ted. The parking brake is just an auxiliary brake so why not use it as such?

NickD on Sun February 15, 2004 5:51 AM User is offline

Ironically, the owners manual that is super thick with more how to drive than to change the engine oil doesn't mention using the parking brake. They say to use your right foot on the brake and your left foot on the clutch, shift your right foot to the accelerator, apply pressure while releasing the clutch.

Several vehicles made in the 30's addressed this problem with a device called the hill holder where the clutch would apply the brake. This was used by the less popular cars, like the Nash, Hudson, and Grhame (?). With an AT, I tend to be a two foot driver, what the heck, I have a perfectly good left foot with enough brains not to step on both pedals at the same time. But that is a no-no in drivers training, forget you even have a left foot. But if you take flying lessons, you get to use your left foot just as much as your right foot.

Karl Hofmann on Sun February 15, 2004 9:10 AM User is offlineView users profile

Nick,

The hill start is a required part of our driving test (If you take your test in an auto, then you will not be issued with a licence for a manual transmission car)

The correct procedure for a hill start uses the hand brake (Parking brake)

Whilst stationary the hand brake must be applied and the tranmission in neutral, in order to pull away depress the clutch pedal and select the appropriate gear. Raise the clutch pedal untill you can feel the clutch "Bite". Depress the accelerator to raise the revs slightly, gently release the hand brake and pull away.

I must admit to having the bad habit of not using my hand brake when stationary for only a short while and tend to "Ballance" the car on the clutch. Though this does cause extra wear on the friction plate my oldest vehicle (8 year old VW Transporter 1.9TD) still has plenty of meat on the clutch after 130000 miles so I would regard that as fine.

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

k5guy on Sun February 15, 2004 3:19 PM User is offline

Karl, that works for cars with a hand brake. However, many cars in the US have a foot brake that is next to the clutch pedal and much higher to reach.

My technique is to keep my left foot on the clutch as I am stopping, and use my right foot for the brake and gas. The trick is to keep the clutch engaged enough so that you don't roll backwards down the hill, and at the same time not enough to stall the engine. It does take quite a bit of practice.


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Edited: Sun February 15, 2004 at 3:20 PM by k5guy

NickD on Sun February 15, 2004 8:20 PM User is offline

Was thinking about my 48 Dodge, it had fluid drive, just a torque converter with a standard three speed transmission, but you could depress the clutch, put it in low gear with your foot on the brake pedal and release the clutch, when you were ready to go, just step on the gas, but you still had to use the clutch to shift gears. Was pretty nice as that torque converter gave about 3X torque multiplication for a rapid start, surprised many a 56 Chevy driver, least to about 30 mph, LOL.

Wouldn't mine having a torque converter in a modern car with MT.

Bigchris on Mon February 16, 2004 1:11 AM User is offline

Maybe you ought to get one with an electrically controlled transmission. Then you could control gears with console mounted switches. Ditto for torque converter lockup and if the car has drive by wire you could set the idle speed with a pot. No more worries about clutch pedal free travel.

Karl Hofmann on Mon February 16, 2004 4:33 AM User is offlineView users profile

Ha! K5 thats how I do it too. Those parking brake pedals are a real pain, the only cars that I know of over here with those are Mercs, so I guess that the correct way is to take the clutch to its bite point and just pull the brake release. Got to tell you though its mighty tricky to pull off a hand brake turn using one of those damn things.

Chris,

My buddy has just taken charge of a fully automatic 44Tonne DAF95 truck, No clutch pedal, No Torque converter, just select drive and hit the loud pedal, clutch and gears are operated electronically, it even backs off the throttle as it changes. Over here this type of stuff tends to find its way on to the heavy stuff before it is used on cars. Back in the Eighties Mercedes adopted the F1 style tiptronic type of gearchange and stuck it on their SK range of heavy trucks before it was even put in to sports cars. Drivers of Renault trucks find that the engine revs increase as you raise the clutch and using the throttle to pull away is frowned on, some Renaults have 42V electrical systems to increase torque at low revs, so I guess if you want to drive cutting edge kit either drive an F1 car or drive the truck that delivers it!

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

Edited: Mon February 16, 2004 at 4:35 AM by Karl Hofmann

NickD on Mon February 16, 2004 6:04 AM User is offline

Fortunately, the vast number of intersections are on level ground so that starting on an upward hill is not a major problem, but it seems Chevy should have done more research on their pedal heights and clutch freeplay since there is such a rich history on this type of problem. After the initial startup, it's a very fun car to drive and does have a torque lockup converter in a sense in that there is no torque converter to lock up. On the expressway, the car stays in 5th gear with the cruise on, and there is nothing to do except count reflector posts. Plus getting an extra free 7-8 mpg.

Karl Hofmann on Mon February 16, 2004 6:54 AM User is offlineView users profile

LOL You'll have to go back to school and practice those hill starts Nick, Does your clutch bite at too high a point or too low? My personal preferance on the van is that it doesn't start to bite untill the last 2 inches of pedal travel, which means that I can be lazy and not have to dip the clutch right the way down to change gear.

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

NickD on Mon February 16, 2004 8:06 AM User is offline

I just haven't read any where about using the hand brake starting up a hill. It was interesting to learn this is taught in the UK. It seemed the most obivious solution and fortunately in the Cavalier, the hand brake is very accessible mounted on the console. Thank you.

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