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FS-6 vs. Sanden compressor

Larryejoh on Thu February 02, 2006 10:24 AM User is offline

Is there any benefits from using the Sanden vs. the Ford FS-6 compressor. I'm putting air on a 70's Ford and a have the mount for the FS-6 compressor off of a 83 Ford. Also what is a good junkyard source for a Sanden compressor.

TRB on Thu February 02, 2006 11:11 AM User is offlineView users profile

Well its not the dreaded FX15 or FS10 so which ever is the best cost factor for you would be my suggestion. Both the FS6 and the Sanden are good compressors for most applications. If you are buying new I would suggest the Seltec my first choice or the Sanden.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

bohica2xo on Thu February 02, 2006 2:44 PM User is offline

I would go with the FS6.

No mounting troubles, the OEM mounts were very reliable.

The FS6 was a good compressor. Look at This Thread, the compressor I used there is a good example. We took that compressor off of a mustang with about 150k miles on it. The car had been overheated, with rusty water stains on the compressor.

If you get a junkyard compressor, be sure to flush and test it before installation. Check the clutch bearing too. In a quiet place, wrap a rope around the pulley, and spin it up with a good yank - listen for bearing noise...

Good Luck


B.

-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

ice-n-tropics on Thu February 02, 2006 3:19 PM User is offline

Tim,
Where Forum participants clearly want to "poor boy" AC repairs with used parts, it would be helpful to facilitate their needs. How to provide that service?
Larry,
Since Tim web site doesn't list any of the durable Sanden compressors as used on 97 % of heavy trucks and the majority off road machinery and military equipment, you might want to check with this Forum contributor's Junk Yards. It's rare see a Seltec on a Class 8 truck or CAT and Case machines (for a reason).

The "Swashplate" design FS6 was built by both Nippondenso and Ford and is constructed basically like the Seltec. Sliding bearings are used to transmit rotary motion to axial linear motion. Incoming refrigerant gas is routed through the crankcase to reach the far end of the compressor. This heats up the gas before it enters the compression cylinders which lowers the operating efficiencies. Oil is not allowed to build up in the crankcase where it could do the most good. Lube is especially needed to bathe the sliding marble size half sphere shapped bearings as they rub against the swashplate. Low refrigerant charge reduces returning oil circulation ratio (OCR) and overheats the returning refrigerant gas while causing low oil return because the oil seperates from the hotter gas. This results in compressor failure unless the compressor is cycled off by protection switches. These particular swashplate compressors have no piston rings and bypass gas between the piston and the cylinder bore.

The "Wobble Plate" design, Sanden, has an isolated oil crankcase (verses the Seltec and FS6 which use the crankcase for the flow through passageway to route the gas to the cylinders). Sanden does not use sliding bearings in their swash plate design which began manufacture in 1971. Rotary input motion is transmitted to linear motion via large roller thrust bearings. The Sanden routes the incoming oil laden refrigerant gas directly into the head where the hose fittings are located and near to the compression chambers. The very little oil which passes past the piston rings enters the crankcase which retains 2 to 4 ounces of lube to keep the roller bearings well lubricated. Piston rings reduce blowby and increase volumetric (cooling capacity) and isentropic efficiency (lower power requirement) .Therefore, the Sanden does not heat up the refrigerant as much before it enters the compression chamber. When there are AC system leaks or a heavy accumulation of liquid refrigerant in the Sanden, the roller bearings survive longer than compressors with sliding bearings. The Sanden is forgiving of these boundry lubrication operating conditions.

Your application would require adaptor bracketry if the FS6 is not used. Many older Fords had dealer installed AC which used Sanden and these brackets may be found. Bohica seems to have most every old thing.

Cordially,
TEX's Junk Yard


-------------------------
Isentropic Efficiency=Ratio of Theoretical Compression Energy/Actual Energy.
AMAZON.com: How To Air Condition Your Hot Rod

Edited: Fri February 03, 2006 at 11:36 AM by ice-n-tropics

TRB on Thu February 02, 2006 4:28 PM User is offlineView users profile

Sorry Norm but I do prefer the Seltec compressor but as you know I have nothing against the Sanden either. Might lean more toward the Sanden if I worked for them. Personally I do not use any wrecking yard items so really have no suggestion for those type of items. I do agree with bohica2xo if the individual already has the brackets for the FS6, that would be the way to go.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com


Edited: Thu February 02, 2006 at 4:29 PM by TRB

bohica2xo on Thu February 02, 2006 7:56 PM User is offline

Tex:

While I am sure your description of the Sanden innards are accurate, I just don't know that it is necessary. With Nippondenso's and Diesel KaKa's going 150 to 200 thousand miles here in the desert, how good does a compressor need to be?

I think most of the jap axial piston units are made to very close tolerances, with high quality materials. Will the sanden outlast the D-K? Hard to say in my driveway, I have one of each, but the D-K has 200k on it, and the SD7 has only 100k. I still have some driving to do. By the way, I needed the A/C here this afternoon.

I gotta go to TX and visit some junkyards! Around here, all we have are old fords and chebbys - and the class 8 yard wants a fortune for any part they have for sale...


I don't often see an aftermarket Sanden install on a ford. It is usually one of your two most favorite compressors - either a York, or a 980.


OEM ford brackets for A6's, York's, FS6's and FS10's are usually not too hard to find. Given a choice, I would prefer the OEM brackets - less prone to mis-alignments & failures.


Most '70's fords were big cars, and many had A6's from the factory. If you put a smaller compressor on, you may lose some capacity...


B.



-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

ice-n-tropics on Fri February 03, 2006 9:24 AM User is offline

Yea Bohica,
All dem air comps perty much get'ta parity if'n der in Bohica's driveway.

A regular charge amount check and no 4 # refrigerant charge migrating through the compressor crankcase and washing oil off the sliding bearings by thermal siphoning overnight, levels the playing field. It's what Denso calles "Dry Lock" with their compressors when they try applications on large AC systems without liquid refrigerant check valves in the lines. Dry Lock is the sliding bearings stuck to the swash plate without lube.

Larry,
The easiest, most time efficient and best result would be to find a "Nippondenso made FS6" to fit your OEM bracket and leave the Ford made version FS6 in the junk yard.

Tim and band of brothers,
Is there a way to facilitate "Buyer to Seller" or is there any interest by participants in adding a used parts, as is, sale board to the Forum for DIY Poo Boy Fix UPs? Guess it could be a little self defeating for AMA Inc. new parts sales, but maybe someone wants something you don't have like a old FS6. Larry's original question that started this thread was Where to get a used comp?

Cordially,
TEX

-------------------------
Isentropic Efficiency=Ratio of Theoretical Compression Energy/Actual Energy.
AMAZON.com: How To Air Condition Your Hot Rod

Edited: Fri February 03, 2006 at 9:51 AM by ice-n-tropics

TRB on Fri February 03, 2006 10:08 AM User is offlineView users profile

Here's my view, I personally have no connections to a quality wrecking yard. No matter how we present it if someone gets a raw deal by a recommended link on this site its going to come back on us. This is why I do not charge people to place a banner on our site. I choose to list companies which we support and know they will back us and our customers if something should happen. Lately with many local Arizona ac supplies closing up, changing names or flat moving to god knows where! We have had just about every vendor hit our doors this year. I do not think since the first of the year there has been one week which someone in the industry has not been by trying to get us to buy from them. Companies like Omega, APCOAIR, FOUR Seasons, Proliance, SPI, NAPA and even both divisions of Global Parts Distributors just to name a few. Point being we have the ability to choose from just about anyone we want to within this industry. We work with not only fair priced vendors but trustworthy vendors like Omega for instance. So with this in mind the only person "I" know of at this time which falls into our goals for this site would be Chick. I do believe he has an association with a wrecking yard and if he wants to offer a wrecking yard item on this forum I have no issue with "him" doing so. I have trust Chick would make things right to the best of his abilities (no ones perfect not even Sanden) if something should arise with something he offered. Chick may not even want to offer items but I'm just saying I would trust him do so!

Norm you are correct when you say we don't even list the Sanden line on our site. But you can be assured we suggest and sell Sanden products all the time. I wish people really understood what it takes to keep the online store up to date application wise and user ability wise. We are working on a new site now in the background of the current online store. Adding new products and lines which is just a never ending monster. I would love to have a completed online store which listed every little item available to us and maybe someday that will happen. Seems like winters get shorter every year anymore!

But hey I still plan on getting out to Texas some day soon! I'll be ready for that fishing trip you promised just tell be how much "bait" I need to bring!

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

bohica2xo on Fri February 03, 2006 11:44 AM User is offline

Tex & Tim:

I generally see the "used compressor from the junkyard" route as the sole responsibility of the end user. I would not personally sell a used compressor to a customer. Tex has suggested a user - to - user exchange. Occasionally we help each other out on here with parts already - I don't see a big enough volume to support a seperate forum though. There are plenty of sites for swapping parts (racingjunk, etc.) and even they are not that big.


Most of the time, someone is either building a system from scratch - or trying to cut the cost to the absolute minimum.
For the people building a system, I think the junkyard unit serves a purpose. A short term mockup that allows them to get a system partially wrung out. we all know it will have a much shorter life, but if they used a mainstream compressor - a quality replacement is sitting on the shelf waiting for them.
For the user that insists on a junkyard compressor because it is cheaper, you may never convince them of the false economy. Best to let them skin their own knuckles yanking a dead compressor from a wreck...

Tex, you are right on target. I never abuse my compressors by running them low on charge. By the way, I still have an SD508 in service - does this unit have the same bearing arrangement? I wish I had put an hourmeter on that unit when I installed it in 1990...



B.

.




-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

ice-n-tropics on Fri February 03, 2006 12:52 PM User is offline

Well you Guys convinced me it's best to not get involved here in used AC parts. This Forum needs to retain it's excellent reputation and not into potential problem areas.
Like Paul Newman in Hud said: "This world is so full of crap, a man's gonna get into it sooner or later, whether he's careful or not.

The SD508 does have the swash plate characteristic bearing arrangement. The SD508 started production in March 1971 as a wobble plate compressor derived from a Delco A5. Bill Olson at MARK IV Air Conditioning in Big D replaced the Delco slider anti-rotation mechanism with a patented gear set. Thus, Bill fathered the SD508 which was first mass produced in Japan.

Cordially,
TEX

-------------------------
Isentropic Efficiency=Ratio of Theoretical Compression Energy/Actual Energy.
AMAZON.com: How To Air Condition Your Hot Rod

TRB on Fri February 03, 2006 12:59 PM User is offlineView users profile

Would that be the Sankyo SD 508??

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

bohica2xo on Fri February 03, 2006 1:16 PM User is offline

Tex:

It looks like Sanden has made some improvments on it's website. It is easier to navigate now. I had not visited the site for a while, nice to see the service manuals online now.


I know they make some "direct replacement" compressors for the GM cars, are they doing a replacement for the FS10? Anything else? The part numbers on the website don't offer a clue...


I promise the next failed sanden will go straight to you for dissection.



B



-------------------------
"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

Chick on Fri February 03, 2006 2:08 PM User is offlineView users profile

I do "most" of my work out of my buddies shop, which is a body shop/junkyard. I would never sell anything used on line, but in certain cases if a part is not available in the guys location, I would hook him up with my Buddy..Not all junkyards go thru what my friend does with any used part. Compressors are a small part of his used parts business, yet he will not even pull one off the car unless the pressures are checked on a running system. Still, you will get mechanics that buy used parts and blow them up, or use his parts to diagnois the problem (Mass air flow meters, computers etc) ..So he sells compressors with "Guarantee only if we install" disclaimer. So when a compressor is pulled off, and a system flush is needed and drier replaced, they must do it or they are on their own..That said, I would feel "uncomfortable" trying to sell used parts on line, especially as Tim says, it will come back to him. Hell he has enough grief I would imagine.. But that is not to say that if I see a guy looking for a part that he cannot get new, and cannot locate in his area, and my friend has it, that I wouldn't put the two together..Thats just a favor.. I like things the way they are...

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

ice-n-tropics on Fri February 03, 2006 2:35 PM User is offline

Bohica,
Sanden has a sister co. in shanghai that makes a FS10 Knock off. It comes to the USA on the grey market through various distribution channels.
Tim,
The SD508 had the following names:
1) Olson Compressor 1968-1970 It was a hoot with brass head and clamp on mounting ears. misnamed a Rotary. The drawings were changed daily. Drawing overload because I was making every drawing on the ICEE carbonated drink machine at the same time.
2) Mitchell 1971
3) Abacus 1971-1974
4) Sankyo 1974-1983
5) Sanden 1984 - 2006

Cordially,
TEX

-------------------------
Isentropic Efficiency=Ratio of Theoretical Compression Energy/Actual Energy.
AMAZON.com: How To Air Condition Your Hot Rod

TXAB on Sun March 05, 2006 10:32 PM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: TRB

But hey I still plan on getting out to Texas some day soon! I'll be ready for that fishing trip you promised just tell be how much "bait" I need to bring!

Hey Tim, if'n ya make it to Texas, bring some charcoal with ya and I'll throw another penguin on the barbie for ya.

-------------------------
"Don't get stuck on stupid!"
---- Lt. Gen. Russel Honore

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