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1986 K10 R12 to R134A Conversion

kennyoung on Sat December 22, 2007 2:16 AM User is offlineView users profile

Year: 1986
Make: Chevrolet
Model: Silverado K-10
Engine Size: 305
Refrigerant Type: R-12
Ambient Temp: 115
Pressure Low: 0
Pressure High: 0
Country of Origin: United States

Trying to Convert a Vehicle(1986 K10 Silverado) to R134A in Phoenix , AZ 115 degrees daily in summer. I need to know if anyone out there knows if a High Flow Condenser is a must in this climate. If living in a cooler climate I have heard you don't have to change the OEM tube style condenser? Since I do live in extreme heat climate, do I need to change this or not? Do you recommend a place that can change my condenser to a new style condenser, high flow, with the necessary fittings so I can just drop the new condenser into the truck, and make it look as OEM as possible. I only want to do this job once, I am doing it myself and I don't want to waste my time with a conversion that only gets down to 60 degrees at the register, when I am all done. Does anyone know about this part of the A/C system when doing a conversion in high temperature climates? Also, do I need to change out either the low side switch, or X switch to change the compressor cycle time now that I am going to R134A?

thanks for your help in advance.

Kenn

Chick on Sat December 22, 2007 6:25 AM User is offlineView users profile

You could not have come to a better board. Right in your area is the best.. The sponsor of this board .... Check out Arizona Mobile Air and drive over there and talk to the guys. They are very helpful and are a "Full service" facilty. Mention that you found them on the board...Hope this helps.

-------------------------
Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

Chick on Sat December 22, 2007 7:31 AM User is offlineView users profile

PS: If you are going to retrofit, a "parallel flow condenser" is a must in the temps..(Hell) but if you decide to keep it R12, the guys at Arizona mobile air can take care of that too.... Have a happy Holiday..

-------------------------
Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

kennyoung on Sat December 22, 2007 12:46 PM User is offlineView users profile

thanks, I just found this site by accident, I wont keep it R-12, too expensive and I need to get the last thing on this truck fixed, so I can sell it. I need to get this done in the next few months. I cannot sell this truck in this climate without A/C and expect to get at least some of my money out of it, that was used to restore this truck, thanks again.

69Sixpackbee on Sat December 22, 2007 3:22 PM User is offline

Well, you can always wait to sell it in the middle of winter *wink*
Seriously, Tim can help you out. You have come to the right place!

.---Bud

tony1963 on Thu December 27, 2007 7:59 PM User is offline

I've done several of these retrofits and in Alabama, they are just fine when you are moving. At idle on a hot day, it will warm up.

My advice is to flush the condenser and evaporator core, change all of the o-rings, install a new orifice tube and accumulator. Also, install a new fan clutch so that the maximum amount of air is drawn across the condenser during idle.

There is also a low pressure cycling switch that you can buy that is designed for R134a and has slightly different cutout points than the OEM. Frankly, I could never tell the difference.

You can keep everything OEM and it will provide cooling, just not what you would want at idle for more than about 1 minute.

-------------------------
Grove Automotive Group, Inc.

An Alabama Corporation

Edited: Thu December 27, 2007 at 8:01 PM by tony1963

Dougflas on Thu December 27, 2007 10:17 PM User is offline

I don't agree to change it to r134 at this point. To start with, you say you want to sell it. It was designed for r12. The cost of converting it correctly will be a lot more than the cost of r12. You did not say if there were any other parts failures so I have to go by that the other parts are ok. Question...why was the system showing no pressure or did you not measure it? Did the seal leak? Hoses? Need more info to make a good decision. In that climate, you need all you can get and fortunately as Chick said, you are near the best shop you could find yourself. Get their opinion.

TRB on Thu December 27, 2007 10:23 PM User is offlineView users profile

We will be back in full force on the 2nd.

Arizona Mobile Air Inc. (ACKits.com)
3601 West Clarendon Ave.
Phoenix, Arizona 85019
602-233-0090

PS: Thanks for the compliments gentlemen.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

kennyoung on Wed January 02, 2008 7:39 PM User is offlineView users profile

thanks guys, after talking with someone over at AMA, I decided to do the following, Since the system in this truck is 22 years old, I am going to replace all of the parts, Drier, Orifice Tube, Compressor and a new hose kit, replace all seals/o-rings and also leave it R-12. I am replacing everything, because I don't know where the leaks are coming from, and I don't want to waste my time T/S a system with possibly multiple leak points that is 22 years old, if I replace everything, then I know where I stand with new parts, and since it is possible I may keep the truck, I would rather start fresh. I just don't think the system will work as well with the R134A. Even if I got below 50 degrees at the register, if premature wear on the compressor, causes R/R on the compressor after 2 or 3 years, I will have to open the system anyway and start this process all over again. The real issue I have , is that according to AMA, the R4 compressor may not hold up over time with R134A, since the R4 was designed with R-12 in mind. The R4 compressor is really not the greatest achievement of GM, which is why it probably did not last long in GM cars. If I need to replace a compressor every few years, then I really am creating more work for myself in the long run if I keep it, and try to run R-134A. So it looks like I am not going to be converting after all. I will need to get myself some R-12 equipment, since everything I have is setup for R-134A. Thanks again guys. I will let you know how this all works out. At least now, I know what direction I need to go in. Just about everyone I have talked with who has been working on A/C systems for any length of time, all pretty much point back to leaving the system as designed, and not doing a conversion. Interesting how this investigation of mine has turned out.

TRB on Wed January 02, 2008 7:50 PM User is offlineView users profile

Not to contradict what our staff has suggested. But if you plan on keeping the vehicle and not worried about OEM equipment? I would replace the compressor with a Seltec and go R134a using a true PF condenser. New hoses would need to be made. That is pretty easy for you since we are local. This would not be a cheap conversation. But in my opinion a viable option. I would trust a Seltec with R134a over a R12 R4 any day. Cooling would be close to R12 with the correct condenser being used. Problem with conversations is people half a** them. Oil, filter and fittings and think its going to cool.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

HECAT on Thu January 03, 2008 10:00 AM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: TRB
Problem with conversations is people half a** them. Oil, filter and fittings and think its going to cool.

This is a general A/C repair problem, not limited to only conversions!



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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

kennyoung on Thu January 03, 2008 1:23 PM User is offlineView users profile

Tim,

This compressor you are referring to, is it a drop in fit, or do I need to kluge up some new brackets and other fixtures to make this look as though it was done correctly? One other thing I should say. Not to offend anyone here, but typically a concern for most people is cost. I am into this truck for just over $20K, I will never get my money out of it and I built this truck as a hobby and for some fun. I will never build another, but having said all of this. I dont really care what the conversion cost is, as long as everything works. Dont get me wrong, I am not going to spend $3K to do a conversion. I will spend wisely to do a conversion if it will work. The big problem I see, and the reason I am asking very specific ?'s is, this thing about building cars and trying to make them perfect, can be VERY EXPENSIVE when you have not done careful planning, asked the right questions and can lead to big disappointments when you have shelled out $1000 here and $1000 there to get something working you will be satisfied with. Before you know it, you have spend $3K and you are not happy. I have been doing this a while now and I dont like doing things two or three times. So again, do you guys feel me on this issue? I am not one to do a Half A__ Job, thats not how I do things. That should be evident by the way I am willing to spend for new parts. When I am all done, I would like to be between 40 and 48 degrees at the register however this is achieved, conversion or no conversion, but I only want to do this work once. I just hate throwing good money down the toilet, I am bad that way. I think this is why I have waited so long to do this job, because I am unsure how things are going to turn out if I do a conversion.

TRB on Thu January 03, 2008 1:30 PM User is offlineView users profile

The bracket we use in our aftermarket system will replace the R4 bracket. When we convert these systems to R134a with the proper equipment. It normally will run about $ 1000.00 dollars. That includes labor and parts. If I was not worried about OEM looks I would convert and let us do it. We have done it many times have the equipment to custom build anything which may be needed. In the end you will have a great working R134a system for our climate. Swing on by I'll show you what I would do and you can decide what approach you want to do at that point.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

tony1963 on Thu January 03, 2008 6:41 PM User is offline

I once heard of someone who had an old truck that could produce 38 degree vent temperatures on a 105 degree day with the fan on high.

I did some research and the math, concluding that it was impossible to extract that much heat from the air at that flow rate.

-------------------------
Grove Automotive Group, Inc.

An Alabama Corporation

TRB on Thu January 03, 2008 6:51 PM User is offlineView users profile

If you are pulling in 105 degree heat you would be correct. But most people driving around in that type of heat use the re-circulation option.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

tony1963 on Thu January 03, 2008 7:27 PM User is offline

This particular person claimed to have the doors of the vehicle open. I did the math using a heat formula and got the CFM data from research.

Impossible to obtain those readings. In fact, you would need a heat exchanger 6 times the size.

-------------------------
Grove Automotive Group, Inc.

An Alabama Corporation

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