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replacing a compressor -need help.

davey1234567890 on Fri February 15, 2008 10:12 AM User is offline

Year: 1994
Make: Oldsmobile Cutlass Cier
Model: Cutlass Ciera
Engine Size: 3.1
Refrigerant Type: r134a
Country of Origin: United States

can anyone tell me how to put a new compressor on a 1994 ciera? to get the warranty i have to replace the acumulator and orifice .any help on replacing these parts and there location would be very helpful .I need all the help I can get.
thanks in advance!

GM Tech on Fri February 15, 2008 11:58 AM User is offline

I'm always curious as to why you need a compressor- does it leak? if so- there are other alternatives that don't require a new dehydrator. If it is noisy- there may be things that fix that as well---

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The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

Chick on Fri February 15, 2008 1:13 PM User is offlineView users profile

As Gm Tech said, we would like to know why your changing your compressor,, but the accumulator should be on the driver side up near the front, you'll have to remove a few parts to get to it easily, but it's down low and easy to miss.. The O tube is on the driver side behind the bumper on the condenser outlet. Usually easier to remove the grille so you can get one hand in there and the other thru the opening in the bumper. Here's a pic of it's location with the header panel removed.


Depending on why you're changing it, there may be a lot more that needs to be done, but be sure to use PAG 150 oil, pull a deep vacuum, charge the specified amount of R134a back into the vacuum. flushing may or may not be needed, the condition of the O tube will verify that, along with the color of the old oil..Let us know what you find..
PS: You "cannot" charge the system without vacuuming the system first....so if you don't have a pump, let us know...


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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

davey1234567890 on Fri February 15, 2008 3:11 PM User is offline

I am changing it on a freinds car.the compressor is very loud and makes rattling like sounds ,so he wants a new compressor so he wont have to worry about it. he called some repair shops and they said he neede a new compressor also .yes I have a vaccum pump and recovery machine .and gauges. what about the oil? the guy I am doing this for has the parts he bought new and he said it has oil in the new compressor .do i have to buy oil to put in it? can I reach the orifice tube without removing the front grill? do i have to change the orifice ? I think i have to to get the warrant that came with it .can you give me a pic of the accumulator position? any help would be realy helpful .can any one give me step by step directions on how to do this?
thanks in advance.

Chick on Fri February 15, 2008 4:03 PM User is offlineView users profile

I would drain the shipping oil and add back fresh. Checking/changing the O tube is "important". the condition of it can tell you a lot, like if you need to flush the system. I don't have a pic handy of the location, but it's the silver can on the low side up near the radiator on those. In the pic I showed of the O tube location you'll see the rubber air intake in the top of the pic. It's under that. One line in and one line out. Just look at the new one to identify it.. Taking the grille out always made it easier for me..ten torque head screws and it comes ruight out..I suppose you can try holding the nut and turning the other from under the car..But the grill comes out easy..

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

iceman2555 on Fri February 15, 2008 4:21 PM User is offlineView users profile

It is doubtful that this is the answer that is desired....but considering the questions presented....why not simply locate a reputable shop and have them repair the vehicle. From the questions, it seems that underhood knowledge is limited and from the description of info required....this sure sounds like a possible disaster in the making.
The compressor is noisy as a result of insufficient refrigerant within the system to insure proper migration of lubricant.
The result is a serenely worn compressor that has probably contributed a vast amount of debris within the system.
First recover the refrigerant, the statement was that this equipment was available. Remove necessary components, including the compressor, accumulator (looks like a small aluminum can located near the evap outlet). Remove the a/c lines for flushing, consider replacement if equipped with mufflers/filters. Acquire a suitable flush chemical, app 2 qts may be needed. Flush the evap and condenser to remove debris and residual lubricants.
If the orifice is located in the condenser outlet/liquid line inlet, the grill should be removed to facilite orifice tube installation and removal. It is possible to accomplish this without removal of the grill...but if the connectors are corroded...removal sure makes it a bit more easy. On this thought, these connectors often tend to 'bond' together...making them almost impossible to remove. Be sure to use the correct size wrenches for both connectors. If the lines are not able to be broken apart, it may necessitate the changing of the condenser and the hose assembly also. Good luck with this part of the repair.
Reinstall all parts, compressor, lines, etc. Install the accumulator last.
Also with the compressor, you may find that the rear head is different from the unit installed on the vehicle. The new compressor all use 'sealing washers' instead of 'o rings'..this is a normal replacement ..just insure the manifold is securely mounted and seated properly. Follow the instructions for the correct sealing washers for your particular compressor/manifold configuration.
Lubricant all orings with mineral lubricant. If using 134a (retro fitting) be sure to use the correct lubricant....GM spec's PAG 150 and that is my suggestion. Esters will work, but the lube spec is a bit light for the HR6 compressor. The noise level of the H series may increase when esters are used.
Add app 2-3 oz of lube into the suction side of the compressor. Add the remaining 5-6 oz into the inlet side of the accumulator (the port that attaches to the evap outlet).
Evac the vehicle for a min of 30-45 minutes. Consider the ambient temp of your location, if the temperature is less than 70degrees, it is suggested to operate the vehicle during the evac process to aid in removal of moisture from the system.
Since the statement was that a recovery machine was available...does this machine have the ability to recharge the vehicle also? If so, then simply evac and then recharge the vehicle to OE specs. If using 134a, a recharge of app 90% of the OE spec'd R12 charge is acceptable. Be sure to add sufficient refrigerant to fill the hoses of the machine, unless your machine has the ability to do this itself.
If using small cans/30lb cylinder...introduce refrigerant into the system as a vapor in the low side of the system. Introduce sufficient refrigerant to equalize pressures and then energize the compressor to 'pull' the remainder of the charge into the system. NOTE failure to properly lubricant the accumulator prior this process may result in complete compressor failure due to lack of sufficient lubricant flow.
Once the system is recharged, precede with an after service check out to insure correct fill and operations.
If the ambient temp is sufficient..above 75 degrees....simply open the doors...max cooling...high blower...engine at idle....allow the system to stabilize...app operation time 5 minutes......check the inlet and outlet temps of the evap...they should be the same temp....or within 3-5 degrees of each other. If the outlet is much warmer than the outlet...add small amounts of refrigerant until the temps balance. If the outlet is much cooler than the inlet...simply recover small amounts of refrigerant to allow the temps to balance. Once this occurs the system is properly recharged....test temps/pressures. Be aware that during this process, both the high and low sides pressures will be a bit higher than normally expected.
Shut the doors....allow the interior temp to cool and then recheck pressure/temps for proper engine cooling,fan operations etc.
If the ambient temp is below the magic 75degrees....simply close the doors....engine at idle....turn HEATER on...monitor the cabin temp...once it reaches app 90 degrees....energize the compressor..max cool...high blower..engine at idle...once more check the inlet and outlet temps of the evap for similar conditions as before.
Both of these test place the evap in a high heat load and will insure complete recharge of the system. A system that is operated 'flooded' under these conditions will stay flooded during high temp operations. Closing the doors..high engine speed...max cool may result in a flooded evap...but once the ambient temp rises (summer time) the evap may not be completely flooded and the result could be severe compressor damage.
Test condenser inlet and outlet temps to insure correct condenser operations and engine cooling performance.
Test vent temps and ambient temps to insure correct evap cooling and system performance.
If ambient temps are quite low....precede with the repair...and once ambient temps rise...recheck system to insure correct refill and operations.
Good luck with your repair......remember..there are not short cuts to a successful A/C repair...
DO IT RIGHT!!!!DO IT ALL!!!!DO IT ONCE!!!!


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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

davey1234567890 on Fri February 15, 2008 4:24 PM User is offline

should i check the o .tube? .his a/c cools fine .but it is so loud and rattley he is afraid it might lock up.but he said the a/c has never had anything done to it .it is all the way it came from the factory.so just dump the shipping oil out and add PAG 150 ?I think i still need more help.should i measure the oil that comes out of the old commpressor and add that amount of new oil back to the new commpressor?how long do you think it will takefrom start to finish?
thanks in advance

Chick on Fri February 15, 2008 4:28 PM User is offlineView users profile

Good advice, the 3.1 uses the V5 compressor, and the O tube is in the condenser outlet on those. Can't miss the accumulator..just hard to see with all the stuff going over it..Mounted low in the left front near the radiator..

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

Chick on Fri February 15, 2008 4:33 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: davey1234567890
should i check the o .tube? .his a/c cools fine .but it is so loud and rattley he is afraid it might lock up.but he said the a/c has never had anything done to it .it is all the way it came from the factory.so just dump the shipping oil out and add PAG 150 ?I think i still need more help.should i measure the oil that comes out of the old commpressor and add that amount of new oil back to the new commpressor?how long do you think it will takefrom start to finish?

thanks in advance

Mandatory!!!!...check and replace the O tube... I would not touch the job myself if it wasn't done..period..If you feel you can't do it, then as iceman2555 said, bring it to a shop that specializes in auto AC repair.. There are no short cuts in AC repair..Do it right and you'll do it once.. Also, the car uses the V5 compressor, and as stated above, the noise is most likely due to a shaft seal leak, dropping the pressures down to where the oil was not being moved with the refrigerant. Since it's noisy (V5's have only a couple problems) you could have spread it's guts thru the system.. The two major problems with V5 compressors are front shaft seal leaks, and bad refrigerant control valves (since it's cooling the control valve is probably fine)


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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

davey1234567890 on Fri February 15, 2008 4:35 PM User is offline

iceman2555
my freind called several auto repair places and none have even bothered to return his phone calls.he called them back to see what was up and to see what it was going to cost but the auto repair shops had no idea he had called and said they would call him back but never did .that was a month ago and still no one has called back. so i said i would do it for him because i have done some a/c work on cars before.

davey1234567890 on Fri February 15, 2008 4:37 PM User is offline

I will be sure to the the o .tube and to do my best on it.

Chick on Fri February 15, 2008 4:45 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: davey1234567890
iceman2555

my freind called several auto repair places and none have even bothered to return his phone calls.he called them back to see what was up and to see what it was going to cost but the auto repair shops had no idea he had called and said they would call him back but never did .that was a month ago and still no one has called back. so i said i would do it for him because i have done some a/c work on cars before.

No problem, we sort of cater to the DIY'er here, would hope you consider buying your parts from the site's sponsor but we will help you all we can. I believe the car is original R134a? make sure you check that first. If it is, then you can drain the new compressor and add back PAG 150, if it was R12, then a system flush is needed and the 9 ounces of PAG 150 added bqack to a clean system. But I'm pretty sure the 94 ciera was R134a.. So depending on what the O tube looks like, we'll go from there..A pic of it would be nice.. If it looks like the one on top in the below pic, then we have problems...


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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

Chick on Fri February 15, 2008 4:48 PM User is offlineView users profile

This is what the Accumulator will look like.. $17.00 and change, you can't beat that...


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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

iceman2555 on Fri February 15, 2008 4:58 PM User is offlineView users profile

Understand the problem with the local shops....hard to comprehend...everyone claims business is so slooooowwww.
But anywho...good luck with the repair...it is not impossible...just needs to be done completely and correctly to insure longevity.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

davey1234567890 on Fri February 15, 2008 5:26 PM User is offline

yes his car is 134a like it came from the factory.

davey1234567890 on Fri February 15, 2008 5:28 PM User is offline

will be sure to look at the orifice. and put PAG 150 in the compressor and accumulator

iceman2555 on Fri February 15, 2008 5:30 PM User is offlineView users profile

Almost forgot...be sure to add the lubricant to the compressor body....check for a drain in the case....simply open and add the lubricant thru this area....be sure to tighten the drain.....really crank on the darn thing......hate to see a leak after installation.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

davey1234567890 on Fri February 15, 2008 5:39 PM User is offline

ok will do!

Chick on Fri February 15, 2008 5:51 PM User is offlineView users profile

This is a pic of an older V5, but the body is the same, the oil drain/fill plug is in the side, and the biggest probelm with NOT flushing the system is you will be guessing how much oil to add back. a "guess" would be three ounces back in the compressor, and 3 ounces in the accumulator. Opinions will vary, but you just don't know how much is left in there. I would rather an ounce more than an ounce less...... The only sure way would be to flush the system as iceman suggested, or go with best guess...Hope this helps...


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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

davey1234567890 on Fri February 15, 2008 6:14 PM User is offline

thanks for all the help !anything else you can think of that would help?

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