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Clutch bearing early demise.

whohunter on Fri April 10, 2009 7:45 PM User is offlineView users profile

Year: 2006
Make: Ford
Model: E450 Super Duty
Engine Size: 6.8
Refrigerant Type: r134a
Ambient Temp: 75
Pressure Low: 0
Pressure High: 0
Country of Origin: United States

This vehicle is a bus and is the add on rear unit AC. Manufacture is Trans Air. It has a polly grove belt with a spring tensioner. 7 grove belt.
A new compressor was installed 3 months ago. The compressor was replaced because of a noisy clutch bearing. The belt lines up good. There is no belt noise that I can hear. The new compressor clutch bearing has worn out and blew the front seal.
Am I missing something? Is there something else I'm not considering?

TRB on Fri April 10, 2009 10:49 PM User is offlineView users profile

What are the pressure readings at idle and 1500RPM.

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whohunter on Sat April 11, 2009 12:24 PM User is offlineView users profile

Well right now pressures are zero because the vibration from the bearing blew the front seal. I think. When I installed the newest compressor the pressure was 32 low and 175 High side.

TRB on Sat April 11, 2009 12:31 PM User is offlineView users profile

My thinking is two things,

1. Your getting a high pressure issue causing the compressor to heat up damaging the bearing and seal.

2. The system does not have enough oil in it and again causing a heat issue.

That is if the belt is aligned properly and to excessive belt tension is being applied.

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whohunter on Sat April 11, 2009 12:53 PM User is offlineView users profile

This is a fairly large system 6.5 lbs. of R134a a, and when I installed the new compressor I replaced the drier and added 7 oz of Pag med. vis. oil. that should have been enough oil. Right?

iceman2555 on Sat April 11, 2009 12:53 PM User is offlineView users profile

If the compressor in question is the replacement for the OE scroll then the issue could very well be that the system was not prepared for the replacement compressor.
The scroll compressor produces a tremendous debris field when it fails. This material is very difficult to or almost impossible to flush from the systems without the use of specialized flush equipment.
The condenser is a 6mm pic and should be replaced, unless once more the specialized flush (closed loop) equipment is used. Flushing with small quantities is superfluous. This procedure simply does not clean the system adequately. Flushing the evap may be as difficult, depending upon the flow characteristics of the evap, it may not be able to be flushed adequately.
Residual debris will rapidly contribute to a problem similar to yours. The scroll and the rotary vane units have a very unique characteristic...they allow for a true metal to metal contact of the scroll and the vanes (rotary vane). If any debris remains in the system it is possible for this debris to migrate into the new unit. The most common problem with residual debris in this unit is in the front drive area. There are numerous roller and ball bearings in this area. These bearings are very suspect to damage from this debris. The normal customer complaint is noise. The shaft seal area could also be contaminated with this debris which could result in a damage seal area.
The key to a complete and proper repair to a scroll compressor failure is to flush with the correct and necessary flush equipment (closed loop) and/or replacement of parts. Take no short cuts with this system...it will fail over and over until the system is properly prepared.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

TRB on Sat April 11, 2009 1:00 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: iceman2555
If the compressor in question is the replacement for the OE scroll then the issue could very well be that the system was not prepared for the replacement compressor.

The scroll compressor produces a tremendous debris field when it fails. This material is very difficult to or almost impossible to flush from the systems without the use of specialized flush equipment.

The condenser is a 6mm pic and should be replaced, unless once more the specialized flush (closed loop) equipment is used. Flushing with small quantities is superfluous. This procedure simply does not clean the system adequately. Flushing the evap may be as difficult, depending upon the flow characteristics of the evap, it may not be able to be flushed adequately.

Residual debris will rapidly contribute to a problem similar to yours. The scroll and the rotary vane units have a very unique characteristic...they allow for a true metal to metal contact of the scroll and the vanes (rotary vane). If any debris remains in the system it is possible for this debris to migrate into the new unit. The most common problem with residual debris in this unit is in the front drive area. There are numerous roller and ball bearings in this area. These bearings are very suspect to damage from this debris. The normal customer complaint is noise. The shaft seal area could also be contaminated with this debris which could result in a damage seal area.

The key to a complete and proper repair to a scroll compressor failure is to flush with the correct and necessary flush equipment (closed loop) and/or replacement of parts. Take no short cuts with this system...it will fail over and over until the system is properly prepared.

In agreement if debris is present in the system. I always assume people have ruled that out since it is the most common issue as to why a compressor will fail.



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Contact: ACKits.com

iceman2555 on Sat April 11, 2009 1:17 PM User is offlineView users profile

Understand the last statement. What is most misunderstood in many repairs is that a simple flush job does not do an adequate debris removal. The condenser in this unit is most prone to capture debris from the previous failure and the 'blow thru' flush is not going to completely remove this material. Multiple pass evaps/ small evap flow orifices also are great areas to maintain debris. Not to mention..what type flush was used...and was it completely removed from the system (very difficult). Considering the number of bearings (roller and ball) located in the drive of this unit....they will not tolerate the slightest amount of debris.

-------------------------
The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

whohunter on Sat April 11, 2009 7:48 PM User is offlineView users profile

Hello again, I'm back from work.
I do totally understand the importance of a good flush, however in this case I believe this compressor failed because the pulley bearing prematurely failed and that put stress on the compressor main shaft which caused the front seal to blow.

Edited: Sat April 11, 2009 at 7:49 PM by whohunter

TRB on Sat April 11, 2009 8:54 PM User is offlineView users profile

So two clutch bearings have failed do to poor bearings? I usually won't see that happen without something else causing it. I still think the compressor is getting hot causing the issue if the system is clean. Why it's getting hot is what I would be trying to figure out.

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Contact: ACKits.com

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