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VW CLIMATRONIC Pages: 12

FJRIVAS24 on Thu June 10, 2010 11:27 AM User is offlineView users profile

Year: 2006
Make: VW
Model: JETTA
Engine Size: 2.0T
Refrigerant Type: R134
Country of Origin: Dominican Republic

Hi,

I have a 2006 VW JETTA 2.0T ... It has a climatronic A/C system, please refer to the attached drawing. As per the user manual, the system should work as follows:

******************************

Automatic A/C system - Climatronic

General Information

New Jetta from m.y 2005 may be equipped with a dual-zone (right / left - front) Climatronic system.

Climatronic is a fully automatic, digital-electronic climate control system. The temperature of the interior air supply, fresh air blower speeds and passenger compartment air distribution are regulated automatically. The system features fully digital electronic circuitry and On Board Diagnostic (OBD) capability.

In addition to fully automatic function, air distribution settings and fresh air blower speeds can be selected manually to suit individual needs.

The Climatronic Control Module J255 is the heart of the system. It receives input information from the integrated A/C control head and various electronic components (sensors and switches). This information is processed by the control module in accordance with specified values and provides corresponding output signals that control electrical components (actuators).

The system controls interior air temperature and distribution for the driver and front passenger. The system continually samples and compares the selected interior air temperature with the actual air temperature measured by the system. Blower speeds, air temperature and distribution are then adjusted and regulated accordingly.

The A/C control head integrated with -J255- contains all controls and relevant displays needed to operate the Climatronic system. The systems input temperatures are displayed in LCD displays.

All automatic or manual function selections are input into the A/C control head via buttons located between and below the LCD displays.

When "AUTO" mode is selected, fresh air blower speed and air distribution signals are automatically monitored and adjusted. The fresh air blower speed is high when there is a large difference between the selected temperature and the actual interior temperature, and low when the difference is small or the same.

The interior temperature settings speed are indicated on the A/C control head display at all times. The system can be switched on and off by pressing the "OFF" button.

Manually selected settings remain stored in memory after switching the ignition off and will be recalled on subsequent re-start. Only the function "Air recirculation" is erased after 20 minutes .

NOTE:

Pressing AUTO button overrides all manual settings.
Climatronic, manual operation Owners Manual
In "ECON" operation, A/C compressor output is regulated to almost zero delivery. Heating and A/C operation continues to be controlled electronically.
Before troubleshooting or servicing, technicians must be familiar with the functions and operation specifics of the standard or optional A/C system. Always read the owners manual and review applicable system functions.

**********************************

Now, here is my question ... As per the attached illustration there is no cabin temperature sensor in the Climatronic A/C System. So, how the system knows it has reached the desired temperature? In you experience with other automated A/C systems is there a cabin temperature sensor or similar device that feeds back to the A/C control module?

Thanks,

Francisco

CLIMATRONIC ILLUSTRATION

98audiA4 on Thu June 10, 2010 1:22 PM User is offline

more than likely its #10, the intake temp. the system monitors the intake temp and adjusts accordingly along with using the photo sensors for compensation. when there's a high amount of sunlight on those sensors the system will assume there's a fair amount of heat being generated by sun exposure.

*edit* nevermind remembered that takes the temp of the air coming in from outside.

there should be sensors related to items 21 & 26 i think.

Edited: Thu June 10, 2010 at 1:24 PM by 98audiA4

ice-n-tropics on Thu June 10, 2010 3:16 PM User is offline

Francisco,
I,ve driven this VW Climatronic designed and made by the French company Valeo, but don't remember the interior temp sensor.
There may be both a left and right interior temp sensor
I R&Rd compressor on 89 VW w/ATC but was challenged to debug temp sensors. Front bumper which contained ambient sensor thermistor had to be removed to exchange SDV710 compressor. After 6 hours of trouble shooting/dead reaconing as to why new A/C clutch would not engage, I found that I did not fully seat the electrical wire harness plug to the ambient sensor.
Won't make that mistake again.
Cordially,
hotrodac

-------------------------
Isentropic Efficiency=Ratio of Theoretical Compression Energy/Actual Energy.
AMAZON.com: How To Air Condition Your Hot Rod

Edited: Thu June 10, 2010 at 3:17 PM by ice-n-tropics

98audiA4 on Thu June 10, 2010 9:36 PM User is offline

in my 98 a4 there is the ambient sensor in the front of the car
then there is a sensor located on the intake to the airbox, its located under the cabin air filter, its accessed outside of the car.
there''s a solar sensor in the dash
and another sensor located behind the temperature flap motor, that's why i'm assuming your sensors are located behind 21&26

and finally there are various output temp sensors but i dont think they have anything to do with what you're asking.

if i could find the pdf i might even be more helpful but that's it for now

magnetchief on Fri June 11, 2010 9:12 AM User is offline

On the earlier VWs 98-2005
The sensor for the cabin temp is built into the climatronic head unit. You will notice a small inlet either left or right side of the head unit. inside there is an electric fan that blows cabin air into the head unit. This air is used to determine the cabin temp.
There is both a right hand and left hand drive version. Not sure why..

Maybe something similar on the later 2006 versions,



-------------------------
Once Navy alway Navy

Edited: Fri June 11, 2010 at 9:16 AM by magnetchief

FJRIVAS24 on Fri June 11, 2010 11:21 AM User is offlineView users profile

All,

Thanks a lot for the information provided ! It makes sense to have the cabin temp sensor in the climatronic control module for an accurate feedback of cabin temperature.

Thanks a lot all,

Prospeeder on Mon August 16, 2010 6:08 PM User is offlineView users profile

Sorry if brought up something old. But im working on a 2001 Audi A4 with the climatronic system. The compressor wont engage. I can use the scan tool and do actuation tests and the compressor will turn on, the fans, all the interior fans and doors. No trouble codes. The system is full, and all the fuses and everything are good. we had tried to jump the pressure switch as all data describes nothing, jumped the ambient temp switch, nothing. The only thing we can think of is the climatronic itself is bad. Any ideas?

-------------------------
1990 Pontiac Turbo Grand Prix
1990 Pontiac 6000 LE V6
Both have R12 A/C

Edited: Mon August 16, 2010 at 6:09 PM by Prospeeder

98audiA4 on Tue August 17, 2010 8:38 AM User is offline

does this car display ambient temp in the gauge cluster? is it consistent?

Prospeeder on Thu August 19, 2010 5:56 PM User is offlineView users profile

yes the ambient temp in the cluster is dead on with outside temp. We just swapped a known working climatronic no change. We took out the relay and jumping there turns the compressor on and the relay tests out good. Im at wits end, lol we even toook this thing to seattle audi vw and they gave up. What else can there be, iv shook and pulled on about every harness under the dash and in the engine bay. Well yesterday it randomly started working but after we shut it off and let it sit, it now wont work again. arrhhg

-------------------------
1990 Pontiac Turbo Grand Prix
1990 Pontiac 6000 LE V6
Both have R12 A/C

98audiA4 on Thu August 19, 2010 9:43 PM User is offline

don't lose hope.

have you tried disconnecting the single compressor wire and checking voltage with a multi-meter to determine if the head unit is trying to turn it on? you'll use the RED lead on the single connection (FROM the car, not TO the compressor) and black connection to ground. i realize this sounds elementary but i don't know how much you know. if you're absolutely sure that once you've done that the head unit is NOT trying to turn the compressor on report back here. when i go to work tomorrow i'll look through the wiring diagrams. better yet, rather than trying to probe the compressor connection go back to your a/c clutch relay and use the multimeter to probe the COIL connections of the relay. sounds like you know enough to figure that out. let me know

98audiA4 on Thu August 19, 2010 10:33 PM User is offline

ok, got the alldata dvd at home so this will get you started. if you can access the climate control panel look for the GREEN/BROWN(stripe) wire. this is the + connection from the unit to the clutch relay. check that you're getting +12v at that wire with the car running and the snowflake in the control panel and report back. does the snowflake stay lit? are you getting +12v at the green/br wire?

98audiA4 on Fri August 20, 2010 7:37 AM User is offline

if you can't get the head unit to call for AC it looks like the combo high/low cutout switch is wired to the head unit. its fused (the high/low switch) at via fuse S225 (???) 30 amps (obviously the switch isnt taking 30 amps, its just part of that circuit). the +12v feed TO the switch is black with blue tracer and the sense wire leaving the switch is brown with a blue tracer. you can check for +12v AT the switch or the same wire (brn w/blu tracer) goes to the head unit and you can check for +12v AT the head unit. if you're not getting +12 at that wire there's a good chance that the head unit won't call for AC. possible bad switch if it's not passing voltage or a bad fuse (s225??). I *think* fuse s225 is fuse 25 in the fuse panel, says its for the blower motor and climate control so if your head unit is on that probably eliminates that as a possibility.

Prospeeder on Fri August 20, 2010 11:45 AM User is offlineView users profile

Yes i verified there is no voltage being sent to the compressor. i used a jumper at that wire and it kicks on the compressor. There isnt really a snowflake or AC button, you just set it to LO and Turn the blower on or set it to AUTO, we have an S4 with the same climate head and its ac works perfect. I can take the climatronic control head out yes. That is a great idea, thank you so much ill check those wires for continuity. Im actualy a new technicain at a German Import shop and have tried all the "conventional" ac system diagnosis, and this system is much more complicated and involved, so i thought i might ask for some help from you guys, ha. Ill get back to you on the results

-------------------------
1990 Pontiac Turbo Grand Prix
1990 Pontiac 6000 LE V6
Both have R12 A/C

Edited: Fri August 20, 2010 at 11:48 AM by Prospeeder

98audiA4 on Fri August 20, 2010 9:16 PM User is offline

no problem, i like wiring and have service manuals will travel. i'm centering the diagnosis on the high/low combo switch right now, i think the problem lies somewhere in the wiring to/from that switch or its operation in general.

Prospeeder on Tue August 24, 2010 12:06 PM User is offlineView users profile

OK so, it was actually a brown with white wire from the switch to the head, 12V there, The brown and blue wire had 12 volts. Now the green wire from the control head to the relay. This is where its wierd. So doing a continuty check, the Green and brown wire at the back of the control head is the same wire at the back of the clutch relay, with the key on engine running ac on, the wire at the back of the control unit has 12 volts, but at the relay that wire is hot but so is the other control wire ,so the relay doesnt switch over, apply ground to the wire from the climatronic and the compressor kicks on. So the climatronic must control the relays ground, so the climatronic is not commanding the compressor on. Whats next lol uhg

-------------------------
1990 Pontiac Turbo Grand Prix
1990 Pontiac 6000 LE V6
Both have R12 A/C

Edited: Tue August 24, 2010 at 12:25 PM by Prospeeder

jglanham on Tue August 24, 2010 12:35 PM User is offline

Yes, on most control units, the outputs pull to ground to activate the relays. Sounds like a broken connection or open wire from the control unit to the relay. When measuring voltage out of the control head, if there is no load connected, (ie: open wire or connection) the output will read source voltage (12v) regardless of the state of the control (on or off). It needs a load to complete the circuit. If you are unable to trace the wire or find a bad connection, connect a jumper from the control unit directly to the relay and see if the relay pulls in.

-------------------------
johnl

98audiA4 on Tue August 24, 2010 2:23 PM User is offline

if the unit isn't commanding the relay its either because (or i would assume so) the unit is bad (less likely) or some condition isn't met (more likely). i would take the connector off the high/low switch at the condenser (slightly below the passenger headlight) and you want to bridge 1&2 together which the colors the book says is black/blue & brown/blue. if when you bridge those wires it comes on the switch is bad or you're too low on refrigerant. the black/blue wire should be +12v from relay 75x? in the driver's kick panel area and the brown/blue wire goes from the connector to the ac head unit. you could also directly apply +12v to the brown/blue wire at the head unit it should be in position C2 whatever that means. if there's only one brown/blue wire then thats the one you want. anyway, +12v to br/bl should tell the unit that the system is ok to turn on the compressor. i don't believe there are any other switches involved, just make sure the snowflake is on in the display and give it a shot.

Prospeeder on Tue August 24, 2010 5:17 PM User is offlineView users profile

We did jump the pressure switch like you said already with no results. You can apply ground AT the control panel using a power probe, and it kicks on the compressor, so the wireing from the Head to the relay is fine. The head is not commanding the AC to come on. Im back at square one again.....

-------------------------
1990 Pontiac Turbo Grand Prix
1990 Pontiac 6000 LE V6
Both have R12 A/C

98audiA4 on Tue August 24, 2010 9:58 PM User is offline

Oh, got ya, my mistake. I'll report back in the morning with more ideas.

jglanham on Wed August 25, 2010 2:03 AM User is offline

Several things to think about or to try. Will the scan tool register any codes when you pull the connector for the hi/lo switch or remove the control head etc.? Did you check the presence of voltage on the various inputs at the control head. Just because you jumpered the switch and nothing happened does not mean that the voltage reached the input at the control head. Did you reset the main computer? Sometimes codes are stored, but don't show up on the scan tool.

Quote
We just swapped a known working climatronic no change

Did you take the control head from the problem vehicle and try it in the known good vehicle, just to make sure that it doesn't have any problems? Not saying this is the problem, but sometimes an intermittent connection can wipe out solid state inputs or outputs. You could have a faulty control head caused by shorts or arcing connections, etc., you then replace it with a good module, but still have a bad connection, short, etc., so the system still doesn't work. See what I'm getting at? Never hurts to cover all the bases.

Quote
Well yesterday it randomly started working but after we shut it off and let it sit, it now wont work again. arrhhg

This implies an intermittent problem. Bad or loose connection, faulty crimp on a wire etc. I know you pulled and wiggled all the wiring, but the fact that it worked that random time points to one or more connection problems. If the control head checks out ok, you really need to find out which inputs are not being satisfied and start tracing the wiring from there. Also, carefully inspect all of the connectors for spread pins, corrosion, etc.

Just out of curiosity, have you jumpered the relay long enough to check the pressures?

Persevere and you will find the solution! Good Luck!

-------------------------
johnl

98audiA4 on Wed August 25, 2010 12:51 PM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: jglanham
Several things to think about or to try. Will the scan tool register any codes when you pull the connector for the hi/lo switch or remove the control head etc.? Did you check the presence of voltage on the various inputs at the control head. Just because you jumpered the switch and nothing happened does not mean that the voltage reached the input at the control head. Did you reset the main computer? Sometimes codes are stored, but don't show up on the scan tool.

kinda what i was thinking. be 100% sure the head unit is "seeing" the inputs. also, the diagram shows the unit has several grounds, perhaps one of the grounds is tied directly to the output and is intermittent...although you say when you run "actuation" tests the compressor turns out. this makes it *somewhat clear that the head unit is capable of turning on the compressor its just deciding not to under normal conditions for some reason. coupled with your previous statements and what jglanham said it sounds like an intermittent wiring issue. check all your grounds individually, according to the diagram they're all brown. another thing of interest i see is that there are several connections from the instrument panel to the head unit. +12v, rpm, speed sensor, overheat warning, and a couple other. if the unit makes compressor on/off decisions based on these inputs and one of those wires is broken that would obviously be a problem. i would imagine if any of those signals was broken you'd get an error code for it. what a pain.

98audiA4 on Wed August 25, 2010 1:04 PM User is offline

is there a dedicated compressor on off button? if there is, turn it off...wait a moment and turn it on. do the RPMs jump slightly when you do this?


AND just for fun, rather than using a scan tool, try accessing the unit directly and see if it throws any codes:
http://www.audiworld.com/tech/int6.shtml
you can also view the values of various sensors (temps and pressures) via this menu. this may aid you in being sure that its seeing all the inputs and that their values are logical.

ANOTHER edit, by using the UNIT diagnostics access 52c and it will TELL you why the compressor isn't coming on. Look for the text "Graphics channel 1 - A/C compressor switch-off conditions are identified by illuminated segments of the "88.8" display. See chart below." click the see chart below and it'll tell you how to decode the display. let us know!

Edited: Wed August 25, 2010 at 1:41 PM by 98audiA4

Prospeeder on Wed August 25, 2010 3:00 PM User is offlineView users profile

Well i got a breakthrough, i figured out how to use the mesuring blocks in the VAGCOM and the climatronic isnt seeing engine RPM so its not kicking the compressor on. It has a compressor cut off code 5 for too low of engine RPM and the Measure block for the engine RPM is 0. Now i just gotta figure out why it isnt getting there, im not finding any all data diagrams that include the comunication from the ECU to the HVAC controller. So somehow the PCM isnt relaying the engine speed, it registers Coolant temp and throttle angle from the computer, but not RPM, interesting huh, lol

-------------------------
1990 Pontiac Turbo Grand Prix
1990 Pontiac 6000 LE V6
Both have R12 A/C

98audiA4 on Wed August 25, 2010 3:10 PM User is offline

yeah i hit my breakthrough when i found the standalone diagnostics for the compressor not turning on. i thought if this doesnt help you i dont know what will. seems like you found the same stuff only through vag-com. ok, so the RPM wire you're looking for is:
green with blue tracer. its listed as C8 on the hvac unit and t32/11 on the instrument cluster which is the BLUE connector (pin 11). it *looks* to be a direct connection from the instrument cluster to the hvac unit without going through any secondary connectors.

Prospeeder on Wed August 25, 2010 5:30 PM User is offlineView users profile

Well we found said green w/ blu wire behind the HVAC and instrument cluster, using a Fluke it has continuity between there, so the wire isnt broken. it must be the pins where it plugs in, jiggling wires, reseating the connectors nothing is making a difference. I cant really even see the connectors pins because of how tiny the holes are, do you know if its safe to just dismantle the connectors? I feel thats the only place left!

-------------------------
1990 Pontiac Turbo Grand Prix
1990 Pontiac 6000 LE V6
Both have R12 A/C

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