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Delco A6 Compressor leaking at back seal ... Pages: 12

cwmoser on Sun July 28, 2013 6:08 PM User is offlineView users profile

Year: 1983
Make: Mercedes
Model: 380SL
Engine Size: 3.8L
Refrigerant Type: R134
Country of Origin: United States


My 1983 Mercedes 380SL has a Delco A6 compressor.
It is leaking at the back of the Compressor at the bottom - rear seal.

My car only has 44K miles on it and I'm wondering if I can replace the rear
seal using ordinary tools. I have a lot of standard wrenches but no
specialty tools for AC work.

In addition, where can one purchase the rear seal?

Is replacing the rear seal simply removing the back cover or is there more involved?

As you can see I have never rebuilt a Compressor but I have charged an AC system
and have guages and vacuum pump for that.

Thanks

Carl

GM Tech on Sun July 28, 2013 6:51 PM User is offline

They all do it since most all are older-- I buy the seal kits on-line (the bay) and remove rear head and replace the o-rings- pretty easy

-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

cwmoser on Sun July 28, 2013 9:11 PM User is offlineView users profile

Any special tools needed to remove the rear head in order to replace the seals?

Is this the kit I need:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/A-C-A6-Compressor-Gasket-Oring-Seal-Kit-GM-A-6-AC-O-Ring-Rings-SANTECH-MT2117-/151071118871?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item232c8a5617&vxp=mtr

Thanks

Carl

TRB on Mon July 29, 2013 12:29 PM User is offlineView users profile

You're really going to promote Ebay links on this site?

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

cwmoser on Mon July 29, 2013 1:53 PM User is offlineView users profile

Shoot. Did not know it was not allowed.
Just wondering if I found the proper seal kit.

In any case, is there a special tool to remove theat rear head?

Carl

wptski on Mon July 29, 2013 1:57 PM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: TRB
You're really going to promote Ebay links on this site?
I know of one site where the "eBay" word is blocked. The fact of the matter is that when it came to the HR6 seal kit, eBay shipped price was 37% the AMA item cost w/o shipping. I contacted AMA as I thought it was a typo. I was told that it wasn't and AMA prices are competitive.

TRB on Mon July 29, 2013 2:18 PM User is offlineView users profile

This site can't operate with you all supporting Ebay.

The cost of our seal kits are a little higher than Ebay. We get many calls and emails saying what kit do I need? We spend 20 minutes looking it up and you all go to Ebay anyway. What is our time worth looking up this information for you?

Says right at the top of the page, Auction links are prohibited on this forum.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

wptski on Mon July 29, 2013 2:53 PM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: TRB
This site can't operate with you all supporting Ebay.

The cost of our seal kits are a little higher than Ebay. We get many calls and emails saying what kit do I need? We spend 20 minutes looking it up and you all go to Ebay anyway. What is our time worth looking up this information for you?

Says right at the top of the page, Auction links are prohibited on this forum.
I research part number on my own time. I wasn't very good at math but $29.68 is more than a little higher than $11 with shipping included. The accumulator, oil, "O"ring kit, seal remover and seal protector all came AMA but not the seal/gasket kits.


TRB on Mon July 29, 2013 3:46 PM User is offlineView users profile

Thanks for supporting us.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

WyrTwister on Mon July 29, 2013 5:19 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: cwmoser
My 1983 Mercedes 380SL has a Delco A6 compressor.

It is leaking at the back of the Compressor at the bottom - rear seal.



My car only has 44K miles on it and I'm wondering if I can replace the rear

seal using ordinary tools. I have a lot of standard wrenches but no

specialty tools for AC work.



In addition, where can one purchase the rear seal?



Is replacing the rear seal simply removing the back cover or is there more involved?



As you can see I have never rebuilt a Compressor but I have charged an AC system

and have guages and vacuum pump for that.



Thanks



Carl

This was origionally a R12 system ? Is it currently a R12 system , or has it been retrofitted to R134a ?

Do not forget the appropiate oil and refrigerant .

I have never worked on an A6 . Have worked on a V5 & a R4 . Comptemplating o-rings and gaskets on the V5 . Maybe the R4 , also ?

Consider , while you are working on the compressor , how about replacing the compressor shaft seal , also ?

I read that some / all the older GM compressors used a carbon / ceramic seal .

The newer GM compessor use a " lip seal " . I replaced the seal on both the R4 & the V5 .

I read that some of the older GM compressors with carbon / ceramic seals can be retrofitted with the newer lip seal ? I have never done so .

Should you decide to replace the seal , also , we can probably help you make a list of the special purpose tools needed .

Before you decide , look on youtube for A6 videos . I found several that are helpful in my compressor / A/C endeavors .

God bless
Wyr

wptski on Mon July 29, 2013 7:19 PM User is offline

I've worked on pumps that used ceramic seals. They were around $600 a crack but the shaft was 2" or 2 1/2".

The GM seal remover that AMA stocks is named a "ceramic seal remover".

WyrTwister on Tue July 30, 2013 5:18 AM User is offlineView users profile

That same seal remover works on the lip seal .

One of the problems I had with the R4 is all the info on the internet indicated the tool was for the ceramic " ring " . I spent 1 - 2 weeks researching this , until I finally found an add that indicated it also works on the lip seal .

The tool works well on the lip seal , especially if there is still some static pressure in the system . That pressure in the system helps push / pop out the old lip seal .

There is also ( from my reading and videos ) a tool to remove the " cage " that holds the carbon part of the seal . I think it is a twist-lock sort of arrangement .

There is an O-ring behind the lip seal & it is held in place with a snap ring .

The clutch plate must be removed , first . This requires tooling . Usually can be " borrowed " from a local parts store , with a deposit equal to the purchase price .

God bless
Wyr


Edited: Tue July 30, 2013 at 5:30 AM by WyrTwister

wptski on Tue July 30, 2013 7:40 AM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: WyrTwister
That same seal remover works on the lip seal .

One of the problems I had with the R4 is all the info on the internet indicated the tool was for the ceramic " ring " . I spent 1 - 2 weeks researching this , until I finally found an add that indicated it also works on the lip seal .

The tool works well on the lip seal , especially if there is still some static pressure in the system . That pressure in the system helps push / pop out the old lip seal .

There is also ( from my reading and videos ) a tool to remove the " cage " that holds the carbon part of the seal . I think it is a twist-lock sort of arrangement .

There is an O-ring behind the lip seal & it is held in place with a snap ring .

The clutch plate must be removed , first . This requires tooling . Usually can be " borrowed " from a local parts store , with a deposit equal to the purchase price .

God bless

Wyr
Yes, the tool works on lip seals. I had trouble with my tool because the threads were damaged. It was on a HR6 which was apart, I just flipped the cover over and used a screw driver to knock it out. One thing I noticed and forgot to verify is that the new double lip seal isn't made like the OEM one. The pocket where the tool is supposed to grab isn't a sharp straight pocket but angled with a radius at the bottom and top. Not sure if the tool would even grab it or just slip off.

WyrTwister on Tue July 30, 2013 7:58 AM User is offlineView users profile

No Idea ? On the V5 & R4 , the factory seals were , I guess , GM . None of the replacement seals were GM .

Forgot to mention the importance of the seal protector that slips in the compressor shaft . To keep from messing up the new seal . I have used a plastic one that came with one of the seal kits ( including a new o-ring & snap ring ) . I read to lube all this with mineral oil ?

First , lube the seal and seal protector & push the seal protector through the seal , the " easy direction " to pre-stretch the seal .

Then use a bug , deep sock a tad smaller than the OD of the seal , to push it in place against the new o-ring that you previously lubed and put in its grove . ( Do not forget to remove the old o-ring , even if it is difficult to see . ) After the new seal is seated firmly , install the snap ring . Remove the seal protector to use on the next project .

Put the clutch & pulley assembly back together . Do not forget the key that goes into the key way . Do not forget the nut .
This is a good time to check for a noisy pulley bearing . Replace as needed .

Set the air gap on the clutch , .020" - .035" , if I remember correctly . But double check that . Some brands also use shims , but do not think any GM compressor clutches do ? Far as I know , they are all press fit & the nut only serves to keep the key in place ?

God bless
Wyr

wptski on Tue July 30, 2013 12:25 PM User is offline

Did you use a double lip seal?

I've probably replaced thousands of oil seal before I retired but have never ran across a seal lip material like what's in a compressor. I bought the GM seal protector from AMA. Lubed everything up good with the POE oil. Getting the seal over the knob head is easy but then you hit the angled surface going up to the largest part of the protector and that took some effort. I have a 10" metal lathe and turned down some PVC pipe to push and tap the seal in place.

Everything came off tight and went back the same way. The clutch pulley bearing, I found a piece of steel that was perfect fit for the bearing ID till I got it flush. Back on the lathe to cut a step allowing it to get the bearing on past the snap ring groove.

Do you know what material the first oil seals were made out of? Rawhide, it'll cut a shaft in half if allowed rub hard. That's where the seal company Chicago Rawhide got its name from.

WyrTwister on Tue July 30, 2013 1:41 PM User is offlineView users profile

Not sure they were double lip seals ? What I could get locally . I think the seal material is some kind of Teflon ?

The big , deep socket worked fine to push the seal into place .

God bless
Wyr

WyrTwister on Tue July 30, 2013 1:44 PM User is offlineView users profile

When I replaced the pulley bearing , I used a fair size bench vice and a cheater pipe to press the old bearing out . With a variety of spacers .

I used red locktite on the new bearing and used the old bearing as a spacer to press in the new bearing .

God bless
Wyr

GM Tech on Tue July 30, 2013 2:24 PM User is offline

The seals are teflon

-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

wptski on Tue July 30, 2013 3:03 PM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: GM Tech
The seals are teflon
Ah! No wonder they are so stiff.

WyrTwister on Wed July 31, 2013 7:52 AM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: wptski
Quote
Originally posted by: GM Tech
The seals are teflon

Ah! No wonder they are so stiff.

Beginning of some photos , of my automotive A/C experiences .

http://s719.photobucket.com/user/WyrTwister/media/IMG_20130601_113646_216_zps808ca322.jpg.html?sort=3&o=11

God bless
Wyr

wptski on Wed July 31, 2013 8:45 AM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: WyrTwister
Quote
Originally posted by: wptski
Quote

Originally posted by: GM Tech

The seals are teflon

Ah! No wonder they are so stiff.

Beginning of some photos , of my automotive A/C experiences .

http://s719.photobucket.com/user/WyrTwister/media/IMG_20130601_113646_216_zps808ca322.jpg.html?sort=3&o=11

God bless

Wyr
Looks like that seal kit from CARQUEST lacks the sharp corners in the pocket which in turn "might" not let a seal removal tool work the next time. No felt wipers in your kit. My kit for a HR6 did but the compressor didn't have any.

WyrTwister on Wed July 31, 2013 12:31 PM User is offlineView users profile

That may be the kit from CarQuest ? I also bought one at NAPA & it had the plastic seal / shaft protector . ( Working on 2 different GM cars . )

I think the felt wiper was SOP for the older carbon / ceramic seals ? From what I read , it was an accepted fact that they were going to seep oil & the felt wiper was to help " capture " that oil ?

Do not think the compressors that came with the lip seal ever had the felt wiper ? They were evidently better at controlling oil ? And were expected not to need it ?

God bless
Wyr


Edited: Wed July 31, 2013 at 12:32 PM by WyrTwister

wptski on Wed July 31, 2013 1:31 PM User is offline

I have some really old books that have a parts diagram for the HR6, no detailed parts list so really can't what's what but no felt wiper anywhere. A Google search found this HR6 Diagram which shows several versions of the unit with a felt wiper on the outside of the seal. Looks like to keep dirt, etc from getting to the seal. I saw a video on a compressor rebuild where none was supplied so they cut/added one from material they had.

A mechanical seal can't run dry, it needs oil or you'll burn it up. You don't want a leaky system so maybe that's why they went to lip seals.

Edited: Wed July 31, 2013 at 1:42 PM by Automotive Air Conditioning Information Moderator

TRB on Wed July 31, 2013 1:41 PM User is offlineView users profile

Sorry that website blocks any reference to ours. So we reply in kind.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

wptski on Wed July 31, 2013 2:21 PM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: TRB
Sorry that website blocks any reference to ours. So we reply in kind.
I think that I posted that link before in another thread.



Edited: Wed July 31, 2013 at 2:21 PM by wptski

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