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Could or Should an inline filter be removed after flush and component(s) replacement?

Frogdaddy on Tue September 10, 2013 1:26 AM User is offline

Year: 2000
Make: Honda
Model: Odyssey
Engine Size: 3.5
Refrigerant Type: R134
Country of Origin: United States

Had catastrophic failure of compressor a couple months ago. Vehicle has ~196k miles on it and mechanic felt it cost effective to install reman compressor, replace drier filter, install inline filter on suction before compressor.
Keep in mind this minivan has two evaporators for front and rear. Prior to repair and since initial compressor install, front system suffered from a leak and rear unit never worked again after failure. Suspect clog somewhere causing rear to no longer function. Leak was identified recently and return line from compressor to condenser was replace. At this time an attempt was made to remove any particulate from rear expansion valve. Some was supposedly found and system recharged. After that the entire system is no longer cooling. The cheaper route was ultimately not successful. But I'm new to this to begin with so it was worth a try in my mind. At this point I informed the mechanic since the cost of labor and parts were prohibitive, with repair manual in hand I'd attempt to remove all related components, flush lines, replace with new components with exception of compressor (condenser, 2xevaps, 2xexpansion valves).
Lines will be only remaining parts that will then be flushed.

The question I have is, can I assume successful flush to a point where the inline filter can be removed or is that subjective to my opinion of what I think a successful flush is? What I'm trying to say is can a flush result in 100% removal of contaminants to the point I can remove the inline filter, or should I keep it in place as insurance to prevent reman compressor loss if I miss something in the flush process? Keep in mind I'm new to all this DIY a/c repair and flush process.

Thanks for time and feedback.

HECAT on Tue September 10, 2013 12:16 PM User is offline

Both the suction and liquid line filters can be used as additional insurance after flushing. However, they will just clog with debris if used instead of flushing. Did a demo at a dealership a few months ago; the subject car story was compressor and condenser twice, and the liquid line screen has clogged six times since the install of second compressor. We removed about 1/4 cup of metal debris.

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FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

Frogdaddy on Tue September 10, 2013 12:46 PM User is offline

I am going to flush entire system and replace components. Can I remove the current inline filter the mechanic installed? He took the cheep route and didn't want to contaminate new compressor. I will be flushing. What harm is there to leave it? Because I can buy a new suction hose if I'm confident I've removed all debris. The effort is to restore system to its original state.

Edited: Tue September 10, 2013 at 12:51 PM by Frogdaddy

iceman2555 on Tue September 10, 2013 4:23 PM User is offlineView users profile

It is highly doubtful that this stated repair will be successful. A compressor failure with this vehicle normally would require the replacement of the condenser. There is a very slip possibility of adequately flushing this part. The entire system should be opened and flushed completely. Suggest to replace the TXV's and to use the OE Honda valve. The lines should be flushed and cleaned properly. Throw away that inline filter....it is useless, esp when placed in the suction line. A more appropriate location would have been before the line split for the TXV's.
A strong suggestion would be to have the system evac'd and recharged by a competent technician utilizing the correct equipment. Failure to proper recharge the system will result in a repeat failure.
Unfortunately, there is no cheap AC compressor service for this vehicle. Cheap and AC compressor service do not typically reside in the same vehicle. Proper AC compressor service can be quite expensive and unfortunately this vehicle is one of those......that may require deep pockets.
Good luck.

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

webbch on Tue September 10, 2013 5:43 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
It is highly doubtful that this stated repair will be successful

What part of the stated repair do you doubt? OP explained a _failed_ repair attempt, but proceeded to explain a plan for remedy that included replacing condenser, TXV's, as well as evaps, plus flushing the lines.

I'd think the filter could be removed once everything is clean myself.

mk378 on Wed September 11, 2013 12:00 AM User is offline

I don't hold out a lot of hope on the success of this proposed second "cost effective" repair. Filters never catch 100%, especially the refit ones are just strainers that can let small stuff through. So you don't know how much damage your new compressor has suffered or how much junk is now inside the compressor itself. If the compressor blows it's going to lead to replacing the whole system yet again like should be done now.

Edited: Wed September 11, 2013 at 12:00 AM by mk378

Frogdaddy on Wed September 11, 2013 8:19 AM User is offline

Not sure I have a choice in the matter at this point since they may not warranty the compressor if I should remove the filter and it fails. I'll play it by ear once I tear it all down and see what comes out of it.
Thanks for the insight and suggestions.

webbch on Tue September 17, 2013 11:03 PM User is offlineView users profile

bump. Still genuinely curious why some think that new condenser, TXV's, evaps and flushing is not likely to be successful, and opinions on leaving the filter in or not. I'd think you could go either way with the filter, though I don't see the point in keeping it myself. Neither do I see the point in it's original installation (faulty logic IMO to install a filter to "trap the crap", rather than flushing)

TRB on Tue September 17, 2013 11:12 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: webbch
bump. Still genuinely curious why some think that new condenser, TXV's, evaps and flushing is not likely to be successful, and opinions on leaving the filter in or not. I'd think you could go either way with the filter, though I don't see the point in keeping it myself. Neither do I see the point in it's original installation (faulty logic IMO to install a filter to "trap the crap", rather than flushing)

Agreed, not a fan of a catch all filter. If the system is clean there is no need for a filter. Do do a proper repair cost some labor and equipment. Many read the hype of the easy route and then blame the compressor when the repair fails.



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webbch on Wed September 18, 2013 10:17 PM User is offlineView users profile

Since the filter is there already, the only technical reason for removing it (IMO) is concern of it being a restriction in the (now clean) system. That said, I'd probably remove it just because it bugged me, but that's not a technical reason.

iceman2555 on Thu September 19, 2013 11:03 AM User is offlineView users profile

Sorry for the delay in response to webbch. Been away for awhile and late nights in hotels. Never enough time in the day.

In response, I believe, that I may have miss read the post. It appeared to my exhausted eyes that the condenser WAS NOT BEING replaced. Rereading the original post...it appears that this was possibly being replaced.

As for the filter....hate those things....to often used as an alternative to flushing and cleaning the system. However, suggestion would be to remove (completely) or install a new unit. One of the down sides of installing a filter, is that the line is often simply cut and a filter inserted and worm clamps are used. Installing the correct filter with the correct hose serrations and crimping with the correct tool....a different and acceptable procedure. Worm clamps can be areas for leakage...not a good thing.



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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

Frogdaddy on Fri September 20, 2013 11:12 AM User is offline

Somewhat successful. Particulate was still present in the entire receiver line upon flush. Like black sand in bottom of bucket. Thanks ackits for solvent. Air was colder than it has ever been. Or just going from not having it to having it now function. Was actually proud of myself. Pride is never a good thing as i was about to find out. Issue with a bad o-ring on suction line to txv for front evaporator. Refrigerant oil was bubbling out. Had to remove front evaporator box and replace o-ring. It was pretty obvious it was the source of my leak. Not sure why I moved ahead and put that particular one (o-ring) on it to begin with. Lost 9 oz. of refrigerant out of 32oz within a couple hours time. At $1.95 an oz. Sigh. Will attempt again to vacuum and recharge. I'm going to leave the filter in place because the mechanic that installed the reman compressor may not warranty his work. Insurance? But I can see it both ways. It's there for now and at this point does appear to be impeding the system from working at peak performance. All components were replaced (including condenser). Will update when complete.

Frogdaddy on Fri December 06, 2013 2:36 PM User is offline

Encountered incorrect size o-ring at front expansion valve causing leak. Had it evacuated same day. Lost 9 oz. Went home replaced with correct o-ring.
Finally got around to getting it vacuumed and charged. So far so good. At least not leaking from same location that I can tell. Very cold, when you go without for so long or it really is colder than it has been for some time. Will need to get hotter to tell I guess because currently 66 degrees out. Missed not having the defrost too because of all the rain and humidity.
Thanks to those that contributed. Would definitely do this job again myself. Thanks.

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