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V5 Body Leak.. Pages: 12

marvin-miller on Wed April 21, 2004 7:14 PM User is offline

Country of Origin: Canada

Hi guys;

Long time no see :-)
I've got a question for you regarding a GM V5. Client called up and said he found a puddle of green oil under the compressor. He had a shop replace it with a 4 Seizens around 2 years ago and has not used it much at all (probably less then 10K).

He won't go back to them for warranty and after hearing the story I don't blame him.

The compressor is leaking oil basically dead center where the case halves come together. It's not leaking on the rear O-ring - it's dead center. I called up GM to see if I can get a new O-Ring for it and they said there is only one O-Ring for the rear housing. Does anyone know if this is correct or can I put a new O-ring in the middle of the compressor?

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Best & Thanks;
Marvin

TRB on Wed April 21, 2004 8:27 PM User is offlineView users profile

Back from the dead I see.

What's the application as I can probably get a break down on it.

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marvin-miller on Wed April 21, 2004 9:21 PM User is offline

Na, not dead - just busy :-)

Application is 1989 Pontiac Gand Prix 2.8l engine.

Thanks Tim!



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Best & Thanks;
Marvin

TRB on Wed April 21, 2004 9:39 PM User is offlineView users profile

Check your hotmail account.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

marvin-miller on Wed April 21, 2004 10:02 PM User is offline

Thank you!

They show an O-ring (#10 in the diagram) and that's the one that's leaking. This is an odd case.....

Reman compressor installed in 2002 (I didn't do it). A/C worked fine.
He went away for 6 months and came back during which time the car sat.
When he came back he found a big puddle of fluorescent green oil under the compressor and had no A/C.

I looked at it and it had almost no charge left in it. The oil leaked out from the o-ring on the Front Head.
I pulled a 500 micron vacuum, which held, indicating it has no leak even though everything leaked out the O-ring!

I can't get a body O-Ring from anyone. Customer wants it properly fixed even though the compressor is new.
He's willing to buy a brand new one (not reman) but I would rather fix the issue if possible rather then sell him a new
compressor, accumulator, and flush all over again.


-------------------------
Best & Thanks;
Marvin

TRB on Wed April 21, 2004 10:09 PM User is offlineView users profile

I work with a couple remanufactures so getting the o-ring would not be a problem. Something like that could even be sent USPS. You will find that o-rings ca seal in a vacuum and leak under pressure.

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Contact: ACKits.com

marvin-miller on Wed April 21, 2004 10:12 PM User is offline

Can you send me a dozen? I imagine they are pretty cheap and it would probably be a good idea to have some on hand. If you can get them in for me I'll figure out if there is anything else I might need.

How long would it take to get them in?

-------------------------
Best & Thanks;
Marvin

TRB on Wed April 21, 2004 10:16 PM User is offlineView users profile

I'll have to check in the morning. Anything more than the o-rings and it will have to go UPS and remember the NAFTA and import duties.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

marvin-miller on Wed April 21, 2004 10:48 PM User is offline

OK, I'd also need the washers for the long compressor case through bolts and also it would probably be a good idea to use a new gasket (#15) but for this job that would be about it. So I guess the total would be;

(1) #15 (Gasket)
(5) #10 (O-Ring)
(5) #12 (O-Ring)
(10) Through Bolt Washers.

If that would still work for USPS that would be cool and I'll definately purchase them so you are not wasting your time. Let me know and we can work out the details - and thanks for the help - I think you're right on the money with the case seals leaking under pressure and not under vacuum. I'd rather try and repair the 'new' reman then ding him 1300.00 for a truly new compressor and re-do all the work that was already done on it :-)

-------------------------
Best & Thanks;
Marvin

NickD on Wed April 21, 2004 11:10 PM User is offline

Where have you been, Marvin? LOL, don't answer that, I don't think I want to hear it.

Does the outside case of that V-5 look like it was sand blasted? If so, it's possible that O-ring seat was blasted too, in which case, that compressor is history. I have seen this on aluminum cased carburetors, starters, alternators, water pumps, and other aluminum parts, while this was an acceptable practice with cast iron, it just doesn't work with aluminum and many rebuilders even today have yet to learn this simple basic fact of life.

Unless the end plate bolts were ready to fall off, this may be the problem with that compressor.

marvin-miller on Wed April 21, 2004 11:52 PM User is offline

Hi Nick;

I've been around, mostly working on my web site and answering computer questions etc.
The compressor is painted nice shiny black so it's hard to see whether it's been blasted. I just took it for a test drive and it blew 5C on max ac with max blower so it seems to working well other then the body leaks.

We'll try putting new body o-rings in it first and if that doesn't work then I guess it will have to be a new compressor. I'm pretty sure we'll be OK with the new O-rings though. I bet someone at 4 seizens was asleep at the switch that day. The through bolts are something I'll check - I never thought to verify that they were tightened from the factory - that's a good point.

I'm forecasting a very hot summer up here and I've got some nice A/C ads going in the paper for the next 6 weeks so you'll probably see me around a little more often - fair warning! ;-)


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Best & Thanks;
Marvin

NickD on Thu April 22, 2004 6:58 AM User is offline



Is that leak by that rear flange cover, Marvin? Let us know what you find. I see you have to remove the clutch assembly to get at those bolts and wonder what will drop out if you remove that rear flange, LOL.

The average labor and burden of a rebuilding shop is around 8 bucks per hour, where an installation shop maybe in the 60-100 buck per hour range. So if you burn up about three hours in taking that compressor apart, trying to get all the parts back in correctly, and jury rigging up a leak test before you put it back in and run into problems, you lost the cost of a "good" rebuilt compressor. Besides sandblasting, you also have to deal with nicks in the casting, porosity, scratches, or corrosion. Let me know what you find.

Here lately I have to replace thermostat housings, nothing left of the old ones, if you make something out of crap, you can machine it, optimized it, put it in a fancy box, spend a fortune advertising it, but the bottom line remains the same, it's still a piece of crap.

Edited: Thu April 22, 2004 at 7:15 AM by NickD

marvin-miller on Thu April 22, 2004 4:11 PM User is offline

Hi Nick;

The leak is on both body O-Rings under pressure only. So if you look at the picture you posted the leaking areas are right where the rear head joins the body and also where the front housing joins the body. In the picture you can see about 1" of the actual body (right in the middle) on on each side there is an O-Ring and it's leaking from both of them.

The problem is actually the way I prefer to do things. My method usually runs like this;

Flush whole system
Replace all O-rings (because I have it apart for the flush anyway)
Replace Orifice tube
Replace Accumulator
Install Oil
Deep Vac w/Thermistor guage
Then Charge with exact gas
Re-Check for leaks and performace test.

That way I know that it's good and can warranty the job. So in this case we have....

-an unknown quantity of oil because of the potentially large puddle that was lost under the car
-the chance of wrecking the current reman compressor during repair
-the chance of the same leak due to sealing surface issues or case distortion that you mentioned.

I like doing a complete job that I can warranty. With this one I get a little worried. He'd rather do it right but in this case I would rather go with a brand new compressor rather then a reman. The client felt it was worth trying a repair and if that fails then it's the full monty all over again (as listed above). The brand new compressor retails for 850.00 CDN bringing the total new compressor job to around 1350 or so. But I can warranty that as I've made enough money and done it right.

I agree that it's worth trying a repair as he has already had the full meal deal. It's hard for me to warranty such a repair though without knowing the oil amount for a fact as well as the cleanliness of the system. I'm probably being way too picky....

The good news is that I looked at his truck that I did two years ago. I put an evaportator in it, orifice tube, accumulator, all O-rings, replaced all the leaking switches, flushed it out completely, installed oil and gas and then re-leak tested. It's still blowing the exact same temp at idle on max A/C & Max Blower (4.0 C) as it did when I first completed the job two years ago and showing zero leaks. Since the repair it's been in full time service at his house in Mexico :-) Those are the ones I like and to date they've all been like that. They are also easy to warranty as I made decent money on them in the first place.

So I guess I'll leave it to Providence. If the compressor repair goes well then that's OK. I can't really warranty the job other then to ensure it doesn't leak when it goes out the door. He agreed that if the repair failed then we'd go the new route and do it once & do it right. I guess we'll have to see. I qouted him around 350.00 to do the repair - a reman compressor is around 500.00 alone but then I would feel obligated to go back to a flush etc in order to warranty it. If we get into that routine again then it's worth bucking up for a new compressor. It's a vicious loop - :-)

-------------------------
Best & Thanks;
Marvin

Edited: Thu April 22, 2004 at 4:15 PM by marvin-miller

TRB on Thu April 22, 2004 6:27 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote sent to the hotmail account.

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

Anonymous on Wed May 12, 2004 5:30 PM User is offline

The V5 compressor has 2 o-ring seals for the main housings and a smaller O-ring to seal the main drive shaft. The large diameter orings fit into grooves in the center body where the data plate is located. The front housing slides over the o-ring as does the back housing containing the pressure and Suction lines. If too much oil leaks out, compressor damage will occur. The compressor usually has about 2 to 4 ounces of oil in it.
The Clutch must be pulled to gain access to the tie bolts that hold the housings together .
The housings may be hard to separate due to corrosion. If you have a leaking housing, you may have a damaged housing or a defect in the casting. I recommend a new compressor and someone to tear down the old one for examination. If your V5 compressor has the variable piston stroke valve the valve may have a bad set of o-rings.
Bob

marvin-miller on Fri May 14, 2004 10:19 PM User is offline

Hi Bob;

Thanks for the reply :-)

I wasn't able to get the o-rings for the compressor body so I can't repair the compressor. I called the owner and mentioned that he was out of luck on a repair to the existing compressor. He felt that was A-OK because he was getting cold air and no oil leakage from under the body (after I cleaned off the body, installed a new charge and added oil - and it had only been about two weeks).

The system is not actually repaired (unless tightening the body bolts helped) but he's happy with it as it is. I'm quite certain that in around a years time it will end up puking oil on the floor again and venting off the refriegerant.

If and when that time comes it's going to be a brand new compressor (not reman), accumulator, flush etc. In short, the full monty even though that's what was just done on it around a year ago. It must really suck to have to spend more than a thousand dollars twice on the same job - especially when the car has only gone a few thousand kilometers from when it was serviced. It would have been easier if he had brought it to me in the first place because it's likely that I would have found the problem during final testing. I could have then warrantied the job.


-------------------------
Best & Thanks;
Marvin

FrankD. on Thu May 27, 2004 9:21 PM User is offline

Hi Tim are you now stocking V5 case o-rings made of HNBR? Those things shure are hard to find in high temp HNBR.

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FrankD.

TRB on Thu May 27, 2004 9:58 PM User is offlineView users profile

We don't stock much in the line of internal gaskets and o-rings as we never have been into the rebuilding aspect. But I have been dealing with Sun Air for years and can get anything they offer. Are these seals HNBR, not sure but I will check on it Friday. Email me in the morning as to remind me and I'll be sure to get an answer.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

TRB on Fri May 28, 2004 12:20 PM User is offlineView users profile

According to SUNAir they have these seals in HNBR format.

-------------------------

When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

FrankD. on Fri May 28, 2004 2:34 PM User is offline

Thank you Tim that is good news. I will send you an email about pricing and minim order from SUN.

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FrankD.

twagner64 on Sun June 26, 2011 1:39 PM User is offlineView users profile

I am in need of these parts for a 1999 Chevy Prism. Is there any way I could have AMA send them to me. My compressor leaks exactly as this forum post. I just got 1/2 turn on each of the body bolts on the compressor without removal of the clutch or compressor. I was surprised, but I am still leaking, visible bubbling with watered down Palmolive on the body at the large o rings. Ac with refrigerant charge freezes you out of the car. One week and I am discharged. I hate to buy a rebuilt compressor for $215.00 at the local auto parts store when I feel I can replace the bolt washer gaskets and body o rings flush evacuate and recharge system with freon and required oil.


The post above "Wed April 21, 2004 9:48 PM
User is offline

OK, I'd also need the washers for the long compressor case through bolts and also it would probably be a good idea to use a new gasket (#15) but for this job that would be about it. So I guess the total would be;

(1) #15 (Gasket)
(5) #10 (O-Ring)
(5) #12 (O-Ring)
(10) Through Bolt Washers.

If that would still work for USPS that would be cool and I'll definately purchase them so you are not wasting your time. Let me know and we can work out the details - and thanks for the help - I think you're right on the money with the case seals leaking under pressure and not under vacuum. I'd rather try and repair the 'new' reman then ding him 1300.00 for a truly new compressor and re-do all the work that was already done on it :-)"

Is what I clearly am speaking of.


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Thanks in advance!

Edited: Sun June 26, 2011 at 1:40 PM by twagner64

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