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War in Iraq a communication error? Pages: 12

NickD on Sat July 10, 2004 9:22 AM User is offline

"The fact is, the administration, at all levels and to some extent, us [Congress], used bad information to bolster its case for war," Rockefeller said. "And we in Congress would not have authorized that war — we would not have authorized that war with 75 votes — if we knew what we know now."

The thing is, they didn't learn anything new in the last two years, why in the hell didn't they have this senate investigation two years ago or at least call in the CIA and ask some pertinent questions. We gave Saddam illegal WMD in the 80's to fight off the Iranians, but Saddam elected to use these against his own people.

What tees me off more about the news is the ever increasing, but low body count of our American troops, but nothing is said about the at least ten times that number of our troops are having their legs blown off or experiencing the long slow death affects of depleted uranium, their lives are ruined forever!

Whether you are a conservative right wing democrat or a liberal left wing republican shouldn't make any difference, this is still our country and we are responsible to the world and to ourselves what we do. I feel our politicians are spending way to much time on the campaign trails and not enough time doing their jobs.

We don't have to post tripe statements here on this board slamming either party, the politicians have experts doing that which is attempting to brainwash constantly on the media. You would think anyone running for office should be charged with high treason if some of these slams were true. But whoever wins the electron, the loser calls him and congratulates him and promises full support. How incredibly stupid is this?

TRB on Sat July 10, 2004 11:09 AM User is offlineView users profile

Rockefeller was he not the guy that wrote a memo to fellow liberals starting any and all information should be held up until it can be released in time to hurt the President. When you goal is simply to destroy someone else because you don't have the same political views. Anything that person has to say is pretty much mute in my book.

But there is no excuse for not having the correct information and I don't blame the President for that! The FBI and CIA do not run the Russian intelligence service and they have said that IRAQ had WMD's and were prepared to use them.

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Karl Hofmann on Sat July 10, 2004 12:19 PM User is offlineView users profile

Oh Tim! You can be nieve at times. Politicians cherry pick the information that supports their goals at that time. We were questioning the validity if this intellegence long before we went there, why weren't our leaders? I would guess that after all of their huffing and puffing, it would have been humilliating to them if we hadn't invaded, and they just hoped that we would find something....Should have asked Kofis man Hans. He and his team had been there a long time and could neither confirm or deny the existance of illegal weapons.

George and Tony played the odds and lost....They'll make shed loads of cash out of their memoirs though.

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

NickD on Sat July 10, 2004 12:31 PM User is offline

If Rockefeller did that, he should be in jail, we may all have our sympathies and prejudices, but the bottom line is the guy at the top has to accept the responsibility and even the consequences, after all, he is in charge of the subordinates and who those subordinates are. In the military and even in industry, there is no such thing as excuses, but that is all we are hearing now from our leaders.

If the subordinates are at fault, as they say, there is the door.

TRB on Sat July 10, 2004 1:02 PM User is offlineView users profile

He did do that NICK and your right he should be in jail.

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NickD on Sat July 10, 2004 2:54 PM User is offline

Instead of jail, why don't we blow his arms and legs off, expose him to undepleted uranium and stick him in an underfunded VA hospital?

Wait, that kind of treatment is only reserved with honor for our young men and women serving in the armed forces.

Maybe you are a Bush fan, but frankly, I didn't enjoy his whining yesterday about the nasty CIA nor his whining this morning about federally appointed judges permitting same sex marriages.

This in no way infers that I am pushing for J-J, perhaps that job is too much for any sane intelligent person to apply for.

Yeah Karl, I heard Tony's speech yesterday too, nothing disturbs him, always a pot of gold under the rainbow, I am not saying the war in Iraq is wrong, but most of our politicians are. My secret source of information is from the unbiased media.

TRB on Sat July 10, 2004 3:31 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: NickD
Instead of jail, why don't we blow his arms and legs off, expose him to undepleted uranium and stick him in an underfunded VA hospital?

Works for me!

I have absolutely no interest or approve of same sex marriage. What's next a father marrying his son under the equal rights stance. I also could care less what someone does in their own bedroom. I see marriage as union of a man and a women nothing else. I'm not willing to give up the standards this country was based on just to be politically correct.



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MrBillPro on Sat July 10, 2004 5:10 PM User is offlineView users profile

Time if you don't like my picture your welcome to delete it I was just bored the Busch race is over.

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Don't take life seriously... Its not permanent.

TRB on Sat July 10, 2004 5:41 PM User is offlineView users profile

No need to associate us with those two at all. Even though I don't agree with those two I believe it is the right of every citizen to choose which individual they prefer.

God Bless America!

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NickD on Sat July 10, 2004 5:42 PM User is offline

Here is yet another issue between separation of religion and state and your point of view would change depending on what perspective you would take.

Each religion has different guidelines, rules, or whatever you want to call them in both the marriage and divorce areas.

Then there is the civil laws on marriage, and frankly I think a couple, particularly of the same sex are insane to want to get married. There are no tax advantages to marriage and each will be liable for each others debts or misdoings. An easy way to blackmail or make life miserable for the other person.

While many religions hold adultery as a valid means for divorce, most civil statues do not recognize adultery as a reason to grant a divorce. Civil divorce is strictly a financial matter and while one spouse can go completely haywire, like gamble or drink away the assets of the family, that spouse is entitled to 50% of the remaining assets, regardless of what little is left.

So should the government even be involved with marriage or divorce even for a heterosexual couple? And if they are involved, what guidelines should they follow? To follow any religious guidelines is against the constitution.

If Bush has views on marriage, what guidelines is he going on? As I said, one way to understand the meaning of a marriage is to understand the process of dissolving that marriage. Traditionally, a marriage is a contract made between two people and is only witnessed by either the state or a religion and it's a very easy contract to enter. Dissolving that contract is something else where a large segment of our population earns there living over the misfortune of a marriage that didn't work out. And one person can be at fault for ruining a marriage by fooling around, gambling, becoming an alcoholic, or whatever. And the innocent partner of that marriage is made to suffer as well as any children in that marriage. Within the confines of a marriage the state has no say, but at least with a divorce, financial definition is made, but only after a huge legal expense.

Why even bring up a marriage issue at a time like this? Just a means to kick in a distracter and take the heat off much more important subjects that require immediate government intervention. And its amusing that the number of Americans are suckered into this.

Marriage and its definition has religious roots peculiar to a very small religion in a certain area of the world, many other cultures did not have marriage like it is universally accepted in the USA or other countries. If the government wants to get into marriage, they better well define it first within the guidelines of the constitution.

Several religions permit a man to have as many wives as he wants as one example, so why aren't there more check boxes on the 1040 IRS form? But nothing on the IRS form dictates the sex of the opposite partner. Ha, even bring up the sex of a person in the corporate world, you can get fined or sued. We don't have sexes anymore. One contradiction after the other.

I am not expressing my views on same sex or any other kind of marriage, but feel critical this issue is being addressed at this time without even a civil legal constitutional agreement on what marriage is.

However this law is written, it will take away more freedom from some. Isn't this country suppose to be about freedom, as long as it is not hurting anyone else. A couple of gals getting married sure doesn't hurt me, actually it would help, as that would increase their tax burden.

TRB on Sat July 10, 2004 5:57 PM User is offlineView users profile

I find it amusing that in many of Karl's and Nick's comments they seem to always want us to be like or have a standard of some other county. That is not what made America "GREAT" and frankly I do not want to be like some other country!

Nick do you think that this whole same sex marriage issue is because the President has a certain view on marriage. I just love how every single issue in the world is now based on the President's view. If that is true I think its great. Reason being we now at least have someone in office paying attention to things going on in the world! Surely can't say that for the last clown that was in office!!!!

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NickD on Sat July 10, 2004 6:29 PM User is offline

I personally don't believe in same sex marriages nor abortion either. But these issues constantly pop up in every election year. Since Roe versus Roe the ratio of republican to democratic presidents in office has been almost 2:1, but yet not one thing was done to avert abortion. I feel abortion is legalized murder and from a scientific point of view rather than a religious view. I feel that stem cell research is vital to curing the ills of mankind and no babies are being killed in the process. But I suppose to appreciate this, everyone should have a kid with an incurable disease. I also feel that drugs with a thousands of years of history should not be banned for purely medical research, it's like the government wants people with terminal illnesses to suffer and you should watch a person like this for seven long miserable years in a slow painful death to appreciate this.

I am fed up with hearing about family values and what you should or should not watch on TV or on the net. The single largest reason for divorce in this country is financial and that is well over the 50% mark.

What I would like to hear is balanced trade and independence of foreign energy that has been robbing the majority of this country for the last 35 years. Ha, 25 million dollars for a ten year research project on fuel cells, what a joke. We are being slowly killed by both inflation and taxation.

Don't tell me about moral values, quit taxing me to death and let me find a job and let me take care of my own family. And let parents have some spare time so they can watch their kids, not both working themselves to death to pay the bills. These are true moral values, not the BS we hear from the politicians. And give a tax deduction to people using their vehicles going back and forth to work and school.

Could say legalize R-12 for the people that can't afford newer vehicles, but I guess that is asking for too much.

TRB on Sat July 10, 2004 6:39 PM User is offlineView users profile

Hell I did not bring up the same sex marriage topic you did! I just voiced"MY" opinion on the subject. You jump topics so dam quick you did not even noticed it Roe vs Wade!

Enough politics for me today as this is an A/C site.

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NickD on Sun July 11, 2004 12:37 AM User is offline

Whoops, Roe vs. Roe was the first same sex divorce suit, you are correct, Roe vs. Wade was the abortion issue. Justice Harry Blackmun, an appointee of President Richard Nixon, wrote the opinion for the majority in 1970, the vote was 7 to 2 in favor of abortion. So today you have the democrats not really wanting abortion, more like choice or whatever they call, and the republicans saying they are against it but not doing anything about. Do you blame me for becoming an independent? But this is only one issue.

I didn't bring up the same sex marriage issue either, George did, so blame him. Hmmm, I wonder if they will permit abortions in same sex marriages? But I have a feeling if they pass an amendment where only same sex marriages are permitted, maybe abortion won't be an issue anymore.

Karl Hofmann on Sun July 11, 2004 6:21 AM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: TRB
I find it amusing that in many of Karl's and Nick's comments they seem to always want us to be like or have a standard of some other county. That is not what made America "GREAT" and frankly I do not want to be like some other country!





Ha Tim,

What does make America great these days?

The fact that anyone can grow up to be Presedent?...Maggie Thatcher was a greengrocers daughter, Adolf Hitler was a failed Austrian artist.

You can drive from coast to coast in a '57 Chevvy?....Your fuel prices are going up to match the rest of the developed world, I'll do it in a Diesel E class thanks

You can reach out and touch any bad guy.....You bombed the hell out of two countries and STILL missed OBL

Your rail infrastructure is even worse than the British network....Rail gangs are now working 24/7/365 to renew our system, The French TGVs can get you about in France quicker than anyone can drive.

So... Whats so great?

Oh yes, Billy can marry Bobby......Hmm

Just my wicked view from outside of the fish tank

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

Karl Hofmann on Sun July 11, 2004 6:48 AM User is offlineView users profile

We'll have to teach our leaders to read, when they read intellegence reports, they thought that Saddam had the A bomb, what it really said was that Saddam had a bomb

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

NickD on Sun July 11, 2004 7:20 AM User is offline

From my mother’s point of view, it was astounding how the USA in a matter of weeks pulled itself out of a great depression and into the war effort. Every imaginable point of technology was produced and developed besides huge amount of efforts of war. New highways were built, the railroads were reconstructed, major leaps in medicine, food production, electronics, and even the atomic age was entered in less than three short years.

Where did all this talent come from, from the bums standing on the street looking for a handout? Without the aid of the computer the world's most advanced ships and planes were designed and housewives were trained overnight how to build them.

Post war and peacetime production continued with a new higher standard of living for the average person, great leaders like FDR, Truman, Eisenhower, and Kennedy, we trusted our government and men (including me) were willing to die for our country and freedom.

Then a downhill ride ever since, Johnson and Nixon with Viet Nam with the creation of the draft dodger and Nixon bringing in drugs to deal with the Blacks in LA, the energy crisis. Ford was actually a good if not an elected president, just leave us alone, and we can recover. Carter was a major downfall, Reagan had a lot more sense, but was a bit to liberal with his defense contractors in California. Bush was a disaster for California causing most of the workers to migrate up to Washington, had good reason to go into Iraq, but never finished the job. Can't say anything good about Clinton nor Bush's kid either. But the democrats were idiots for putting Gore in the front line. Listening to these two guys made me feel like I was been spoken to like I was a two-year-old kid with their fairy tail type speeches.

I feel this country can still be great, with the proper leadership and not a reason in the world it can be turned around in a couple of weeks.

iceman2555 on Mon July 12, 2004 3:50 PM User is offlineView users profile

"There is unmistakable evidence that Saddam Hussein is working aggressively to develop nuclear weapons and will likely have nuclear weapons within the next five years .. We also should remember we have always underestimated the progress Saddam has made in development of weapons of mass destruction."- Sen. Jay Rockefeller (D, WV), Oct 10, 2002

Thank you "Rock" for the quote.
This all goes back to Carter....and the hostages in Iran....had action be taken then....and they (terrorist) realized the mistake of killing Americans and of course...declaring war on us....feel very sure some...of the problems of today would be alot less. Regan took care of MK...and he sure calmed down.....most be something about 500lb bombs...bed room ceilings.... crashing walls....to really awaken some folks......

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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

Karl Hofmann on Tue July 13, 2004 4:04 AM User is offlineView users profile

Ice, you did do something to sort out Iran, you payed Iraq to give them a good kicking. I'm still not sure how you bomb a terrorist cell that is intergrated into a community, even if you get them you make enemies of those that are near them and are affected by the blast, kill one terrorist this way and you generate many more. Kind of like trying to kill starfish by cutting their legs off.

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

NickD on Tue July 13, 2004 7:50 AM User is offline

While the start of the war in Iraq was earth shaking news last Friday, it's like all the news media decided it's too hot of an issue to cover so it was sweep under the rug. Too many were at fault and ill informed and both parties are at fault, if for no other reason, not asking questions. So let's bury this subject and concentrate on a judge that only gave a 60 day sentence to a sex offender for raping a kid or watch a baseball game.

meaux on Sun August 22, 2004 7:33 PM User is offlineView users profile

Heck, all marriage is same sex. Once you get married, its the same sex.

:-)

After watchin the 2 johns, I wonder when they will swap spit for the homosexual vote. Maybe there should be a law against same sex candidates!

:-)



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Lazy bum who lives off his wife.

01 BMW 530i Sport, 92 Porsche 968, 85 F150, 72 911, 08 GM SUV, 01' Ford Lightnin'

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