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Tom Greenleaf on Fri December 03, 2004 7:16 PM User is offline

Country of Origin: United States

1. No more vent windows
2. No more rain gutters!
3. Air bags - completely should be optional
4. Anti-Lock brakes - Just plan stupid from the get go. If you can't drive - don't
5. Unit body construction - later models it only a benefit for the maker of the car
6. No more sealed beam reasonably priced headlights!
7. Use of plastic and styrofoam for bumpers! Dumb as smelt!
8. Wiper blades that just don't work well. The angle of the real cool shape of newer cars makes them too long to be effective, nice engineering!
9. Passenger car luxury tax! SUVs are exempt! Any more questions?
10. SUVs - we need them sometimes. Haven't met anyone yet who bought for a replacement of a well equipped car.
11. Why can't we work out something to make cars in the USA? Look at your door jam and see where your car was made. You might be shocked!
12. VOTE!

As the header should indicate I am Tom Greenleaf. I'm a U.S. citizen with a 350 year history of being here, and just don't like the Gov't getting into our cars. To be fair to car makers - it's wicked out there! The competition is incredible and it's "dog eat dog" in a large way. Other contries just follow our lead. Danger with that. Let each country decide would be my suggestion.

Just to expound - I won't wear a safety belt. It's the law where I live but so what? It's my choice not someone elses. My state voted the law out but insurance pac $ to elected people got it re -imposed on us.

You can tell I'm being ticked by this stuff - let at least "free speech" continue. I just did.

Most of all - Happy holidays to anyone who might read this. You might not agree but I still wish you that.
Be well, be happy, and note I don't make a penny off these sites, Tom Greenleaf

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Tom Greenleaf

Karl Hofmann on Fri December 03, 2004 7:57 PM User is offlineView users profile

LOL Tom,

You have some good points there! though I would disagree with the seatbelts, one saved my bacon a few years ago

Don't be so PC about Christmas, I dont believe in all that guff, but I will still take part in the intended spirit, and then partake in the preferred spirit. Christmas is Christmas, and is still so to a Hindu, just as Divali is still Divali to us.

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

NickD on Sat December 04, 2004 7:37 AM User is offline

I was putting a safety belt in my cars back in the 50's, it was considered cool by my peers, only airplanes and racing cars had safety belts. It was the only thing that would keep you behind the wheel when doing 2-3 G turns, especially with those wide vinyl front seats, without one, when making a sharp left turn, you would be sitting on the passenger side.

A guy has to wonder if an executive ever opened the door on some of these cars during a thunderstorm, no choice but to sit down in a huge puddle of water on the front seats not to mention even trying to open the door after an ice rain.

Whenever you clean glass, you look at it at a steep angle, always looks clean when looking through it perpendicular, but with a 30* windshield, you have no choice but to look through it at a steep angle, a little dust with the bright sun on the horizon, can't even see past the hood.

I can't knock plastic bumpers, they don't rust out, but the should galvanize the inner steel bumper, on nice looking plastic bumpers I have taken off, was nothing left of the inner bumper.

How come SUV's don't have shoe mud scrappers like the cars of the 30's? Made more for Fifth Avenue where you can stop under an awning and while 4WD may give some extra traction starting traction on snow, they slide all over the place when trying to stop the things. Really have to watch an idiot SUV driver at an intersection with a little ice on the road.

When the rocker panels rust out on a unit body, that car goes to the wrecking yard, no way to jack them up even to change a tire and mounting the suspension points to a tiny spot welded on sheet metal bracket means the suspension can fall off and many have. Some are better than others with some steel underneath, but most are very poor.

FWD is a darn good idea for a four cylinder engine, but we had to have yet another HP race, working on a V-6 or V-8 in a FWD is miserable, even extra miserable in a mini-van that lacks such a luxury like a hood that can be opened to see something.

Air bags are for people that won't wear belts and historically they have killed just as many kids as saved adult lives that refuse to wear belts. 600 bucks for that one time trigger is a complete ripoff and its 1200 bucks if two kicked off in a minor fender bender. They should give these things away for free, hardly five bucks worth of parts in there anyway.

The Model A had a light bulb inside the head lamp lens, I can go with that, but charging 2-300 bucks for a piece of plastic is outrageous for a two buck part.

Nothing wrong with making connectors and switches in the USA, but we should import those switches and connectors to either Mexico or China so they can be plated since our EPA won't let us plate here or use tungsten at least for the switch contacts. Most of this stuff is made by robotics anyway at 10-20 pieces per second, still wonder about the shipping costs of this stuff to save a couple of bucks per hour. Maybe the shippers are controlling our congress like other large corporations are. Doesn't make any sense.

Tom Greenleaf on Sat December 04, 2004 8:29 AM User is offline

Thanks - you can tell by first post I was chiefly just "venting".

FOLKS - WEAR THE SAFETY BELTS! If I do or not is not your concern. I hate them but demand my loved nephews and other younger people wear them in MY cars. In some ways I'm just an old pill! Tom Greenleaf

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Think about something. All the damn safety stuff your veh might have for traction or brakeing is not ever better that the tires that are the only part of your veh that touches the road or whatever.

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It's a great time of year to share with others. Dismal weather for Northern Hemiphire, but just go for it - put out some holiday lights or decorations. (Semper Fi) Carry on, Tom

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Tom Greenleaf

TRB on Sat December 04, 2004 2:36 PM User is offlineView users profile

Its cool to vent around here Tom unless its R12, which Chick's little buddies don't like.

I personally like both older and newer vehicles for the plus and minus components they both provided. At this point I will never buy another USA assembled vehicle. First off anyone checking component production origin will see its produced in some other country so buy USA does not mean what it used too! The last 2 USA vehicles I purchased were extremely poorly produced. New GM vehicle was in the shop 12 times in 11 months. Before those vehicles had a 86 Mazda 626 which ran and lasted great until someone pulled in front of me! Current vehicle 95 Toyota Tacoma 4X4 V6 has again been a wonderful vehicle in reliability, well over 100,000 miles. The Tacoma was assembled in California so USA workers did benefit! My next purchase will be a Lexus which I have a feeling I will again be happy with the "Japanese" designed product!

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

Chick on Sat December 04, 2004 3:03 PM User is offlineView users profile

Lay off the penguins!!!!!

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

TRB on Sat December 04, 2004 3:44 PM User is offlineView users profile

What I said not to vent R12!!!!

Like I said I'm off to the store think they have penguin wings today!!!!

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

Tom Greenleaf on Sat December 04, 2004 4:46 PM User is offline

Opinion - R-12 Diclorodifloromethane (I think) never hurt a damn thing! It was used in medical inhalers till recently! Hello !!!!

It was the very best that ever will be. Closest to 1 calorie/gram as could be had, with pressure/liquid character that was near perfect!

Do the tree huggers of the world ever wonder how this world went through an ice age and global warming over a million years ago? Just my comment.

When you stop to think - don't forget to re-start! Smile, Tom Greenleaf

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Tom Greenleaf

TRB on Sat December 04, 2004 5:12 PM User is offlineView users profile

Don't think you will find to many here that will argue that R12 really was as bad as some made it out to be! Proper control would have done as well to protect the environment as did replacing R12 with R134a and all the other legal or illegal alternatives!

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

Chick on Sat December 04, 2004 6:23 PM User is offlineView users profile

I Don't know Tim...I think before chlorine was introduced to our environment, the poor penguins could fly..But alas, never more. never more... Now they are reduced to first line on Thanksgiving menues by the "guys" in Arizona...When will it end????

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

Edited: Sat December 04, 2004 at 6:25 PM by Chick

TRB on Sat December 04, 2004 7:01 PM User is offlineView users profile

You must be right my friend as I could not find any penguin wings at the store today. Sure hope they restock by Christmas!!!!!

PS: You know those dam birds could never fly!!!!!

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

NickD on Sat December 04, 2004 7:30 PM User is offline

Gee Tom, you remind me of my brother-in-law, gosh that guy hates seat belts. So I offer to take him for a plane ride, and before I can even adjust my seat he is saying, where's the seat belt, where's the seat belt. I reply, what for, you never wear one in a car, we are taking off from a small airfield, not a plane around us for at least 100 miles, will be just going for a tender ride, clam day, the air is as smooth as glass.

Well I buckled him in so he would calm down, would have buckled him in anyway, didn't do any loops and he enjoyed the ride, but said you gotta wear a belt when you drive, never know when an idiot is going to pull out right in front of you.

Ha, preach to your kids by example, not by word of mouth.

Karl Hofmann on Sun December 05, 2004 5:08 AM User is offlineView users profile

Tim,

Im not sure that it is just the japanese design that makes Japanese stuff better, after all some Jap cars on sale in Europe are designed in Europe and are still very good, I'm sure that this is the same in the US. Perhaps it is the work ethic that they install in to their employees and managers alike, the work as a big happy team idea as opposed to the (British Leyland) attitude of "us" and "them". Plus perhaps they source slightly better quality components.

I must admit, however that our two year old RAV4 Diesel has just had a new set of wheels and brake discs under warranty due to corrosion, this seems to be a problem that Toyota has in the UK on all of their vehicles, but our Toyota agent was happy to do the work and during the scheduled service, so we were not put out at all, though my request for an MR2 courtesy car fell on deaf ears

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

Edited: Sun December 05, 2004 at 5:09 AM by Karl Hofmann

NickD on Sun December 05, 2004 6:59 AM User is offline

In both my experience (and opinion) the Japanese cars peaked out in 1988 when the 70's and early 80's vehicles became the laughing stock of the automotive world. They hired American engineers to help them, I was one of them, but as the yen fell apart in the early 90's so did their cars. The eutectic piston was of American design, American vehicles didn't use this piston because it added about 20 cents to the cost of each piston, and for a four cylinder vehicle, that was a huge 80 cents difference in the final cost of each automobile, can't have that. The Toyota 4-Runner may be a good vehicle down south, but rust out up here is terrible as is the Toyota Pickups. Still doesn't seem to hurt the resale value of these things. But the drive train keeps on a cranking.

Japanese brakes are no better and never have been any better than domestic brakes, will rust solid, but they just don't have the problems with aluminum heads like the domestic vehicles do with leaking head gaskets and all the head bolts are reusable and their AT's are near indestructible. I liked dealing with both Toyota and Honda, although I had to run down to Milwaukee or Madison to buy parts, those dealers up here were crooks to put it mildly. Any part I needed, even a boot for a steering rack, I could buy at a reasonable price.

The quality of my 92 DeVille amazes me, has been very trouble free for the last five years and is staying rust free.

Tom Greenleaf on Sun December 05, 2004 7:03 AM User is offline

I actually do wear the dumb things with kids around. Example is the best way to lead. As for air planes, last I checked my cars don't do barrel rolls just for fun but could with tons of damage! I actually agree with use of belts for aviation. Tom Greenleaf

FYI- I wouldn't even be here to complain if I was wearing a seat belt in about 1974 when I was hit it the driver's door of a 2dr 68 Falcon by a 65 Plymouth Fury going at 55 mph!!!! The door of my car bent in an touched the passengers seat! My seat belt was securly fastened to itself - not me to stop the damn buzzing that they were doing back then. My real point here is get the government out of cars! The driver's seat didn't survive and I wouldn't have if stuck in it. I wasn't hurt in that collission! The point is let me decide - not the gov't or insurance companies! This from a state that contunues to re-elect a known murderer!

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Tom Greenleaf

NickD on Sun December 05, 2004 8:22 AM User is offline

One thing the government is doing is eliminating the number of vehicle manufacturers, in the 30's with had some 8,000 different vehicle manufactures, today we only have two left. In the last 35 years, the price of our vehicles has gone up by a factor of ten, you don't see this in such things as power hand tools nor appliances. Today, for the most part, the prices are either the same of even less barring inflation than 34 years ago. GM did fight the introduction of the catalytic converter until they realized that addition was a nice profit maker. And in today's vehicles we have more and more throwaway components than ever compared to how it was 35 years ago.

If you think you can go crazy reading the EPA regulations on refrigerants, you should try reading some of the other clear as mud specifications the government pours on the automotive engineer, not only the EPA, but the DOT, DOE, CAFE, OSHA and other such agencies.

I have often wondered why the state issues a drivers license, they have no liability if that driver they license kills or injures someone, but have to admit, the insurance companies do carry that liability. That 18 year old kid that smashed the crap out of me shouldn't have never received a license, but my only recourse was his insurance company.

Yet another bad aspect of todays vehicles is the false security they give in being so quiet even at 100+ mph. insurance tests for fatal injuries are done head on and only at 35 mph. With FWD vehicles, the number of legs being chopped off is staggering, but these fall in the class of the million or so injuries that are highly ignored, just like the military, injuries don't count, but lives lost do.

I agree that seat belts are worthless in a side collision, about 20 years ago, stalled in traffic, a woman ran smack into my left door, nothing broke in my, but was I black and blue, that time I wish I wasn't wearing a belt. What the hell was she thinking about. Another factor is these baby seats, a bunch of kids were burnt to death in a mini a few years back, the parent couldn't get them out. I detest these child proof locks where you can't open the door on the inside if engaged, not very good if your vehicle is on fire and you want to get out or if you drive into a lake.

I had posted some time back about the problems I was having with my oldest son when he first got his license being rather wreckless. Quite by accident and in the days when we could go back into the yard at a junk yard before these new stupid liability laws, he saw the same make, model, and year as our car where it was in a head on where the passenger and driver flew through the windshield with all the blood and some flesh still on that vehicle. I never said a word, but that sure impressed him and he has been a safe driver ever since.

meaux on Sun December 05, 2004 11:22 AM User is offlineView users profile

Gee Tom, you must be in Taxachusets..........:-)

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Lazy bum who lives off his wife.

01 BMW 530i Sport, 92 Porsche 968, 85 F150, 72 911, 08 GM SUV, 01' Ford Lightnin'

JJM on Sun December 05, 2004 1:18 PM User is offline

Tom,

Though I am vehemently opposed to government requiring seat belt use, for your own personal safety you should wear them. I never used seat belts either - despite the new state law - until one Thanksgiving morning in 1987, when just as I was looking out the window, a new Ford Mustang plowed head on right into the neighbors parked giant 1977 Chrysler Town and Country station wagon, sending it some 30 feet into another parked car. I saw first hand both front passengers heads slam into the windshield, pushing the windshield outward, and had to help with the mess as me and my neighbors tried to assist the seriously injured passengers until help arrived. From that moment on, I never got behind the wheel without wearing a seatbelt. Now if I don't wear my seatbelt, I feel as if I'm "naked" so to speak.

If there was a law against wearing seatbelts, I would wear them anyway. I believe it should be our choice in a "supposed" free society for me to wear or not wear a seatbelt or helmet, and to be able to disconnect my airbags if I see fit. I don't see how my wearing or not wearing a seatbelt or helmet interfere's with anyone else's life, liberty, or property. And don't give me that superfluous argument about medical costs - if someone gets seriously injured because of their own stupidly, it is not society's obligation to pay for their medical care.

One of the reasons our nation is so bitterly divided is because government is way too big, controlling too many aspects of our lives, creating divisions through preferences in law depending on which party is in power. Sharply reduce the size of government and restore freedom and our nation will heal.

Speaking of size of government, that's one of the many reasons why American cars aren't made here anymore - and frankly I don't have a problem with it. If something can be produced for less money in a foreign country of equivalent - and in some cases better - quality, then what is wrong with that? Imagine if the government were to pass a law saying we (people and businesses) can only buy American made goods. Everything would be expensive and poorly made. One of the reasons the quality of American cars has turned around is because of foreign competition.

Perhaps if there were less "-ations" in the U.S. like taxation, regulation, and litigation, more things might be made here.

I have to agree with you about plastic bumpers. Bumpers were originally designed to protect the vehicle from minor "bumps." Today a minor bump can run you thousands. Imagine if years ago you pulled up too far to a curb a little to high, then backed up and your whole bumper got torn off - no one would stand for it back then. Today we accept it. At least with a chrome bumper if it did fall off, you could likely bolt it right back on with very little damage.

Unit body construction might make for a tighter and more solid ride, but get into a collision I don't think all the "frame" straightening machines in the world are ever gonna make the car as good as it rolled off the assembly line. I miss vent windows too, though I prefer the "roll down" vent windows on the late 70's and early 80's Lincolns, as opposed to the rotating vents on other vehicles. Caddy was great, with power front and rear vent windows in the 1960's.

As for free speech, it's days are numbered too. Look at so called "Campaign Finance Reform" a restriction of the very speech our Founding Fathers sought to protect - not the sort of smut so called free speech adovates champion.

Joe

Tom Greenleaf on Sun December 05, 2004 4:12 PM User is offline

Joe - great reply, thanks. I've had a lot of feedback on that post. I'll make another some day because I forgot a few things.

About the seat belt thing....

There was an article many years ago that never made wide public view and I wish I knew where to find it. I think is was hushed up quick cause it wasn't friendly to lots of car makers. It was old but spoke loudly about safety in cars and what types! It was early 80s. I do recall that it was produced by NHTSA a gov't agency and ignored the current ways we test veh for safety. It just stated how many injuries and deaths occurred in specific cars per 10,000 reported accidents. The lowest # was around 3 for most full size American cars, and the dead last (highest#) was Toyota's Tercel at about 21! The DOT tested these cars in a direct crash into a cement wall and all the stats were different. No large car was in the top 10! I could go on for days on that but will let it be. I DO think people should be FREE to decided for themselves.

The safest thing we could do for our roads is make people get REAL driver's licenses! Can you imagine letting Aircraft Pilots getting licensed the way we do CARS! Oh My! Just imagine no more traffic jams! - As so few would ever pass. The states would be broke as it's just a TAX!

Freedom to speak is fundamental to all of us. We may disagree but I would defend with my life your right to say it. (Think that was a quote from JFK) Best regards, Tom Greenleaf

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Tom Greenleaf

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