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more interesting reading

Russell on Wed December 07, 2005 2:19 PM User is offlineView users profile

In my continuing effort to help some of you "understand" our enemy in Iraq, I offer this captured communication. You might notice it is not from MoveOn.org. In all honesty I have NEVER logged on to that site.

As you read, feel free to use your "google" for explanations of some of the text. The Farsi language is very colorful and sometimes difficult for the uneducated to understand. It clearly shows Al-Zawahiri's questioning attacks on MUSLIM CIVILIANS as well as his beliefs that they must participate in the upcoming elections in order to gain control of Iraq. It continues to outline what he calls the 60 year plan, which culminates in a Muslim state which covers the ENTIRE Saudi Peninsula, yes that includes Israel, as well as Iran, Afghanistan and Pakistan. Look on your maps. This makes them almost 2/3 the size of the U.S., and controlling a very large part of the oil producing world.

These folks have a VERY defined plan as opposed to our cowboys erratic one.

As I have stated before it is important to "understand" these people.



http://www.globalsecurity.org/security/library/report/2005/zawahiri-zarqawi-letter_9jul2005.htm

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The difference between liberators and conquerors is the liberators go home.

HECAT on Thu December 08, 2005 2:43 PM User is offline

Russell,

By now you know I do got give a hoot for Zarqawi's writings any more than I do for Hitler's. I don't care to "understand" our enemies but rather prefer to support our troops to take "care" of the enemy.

I considered reading the letter you referred to on the basis that I cannot debate this issue with you without reading it first. The link did not work.

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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

Russell on Thu December 08, 2005 3:04 PM User is offlineView users profile

Cut and paste......................it just worked for me. I understand your basis of disgust for these people. In the letter he is laying out their 60 year plan for uniting their holy land. We on the othe hand do not appear to have a 60 day plan.

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The difference between liberators and conquerors is the liberators go home.

HECAT on Thu December 08, 2005 4:56 PM User is offline

Russell,

I read the letter and his plan, must have missed the 60 year thing as I do not recall reading that.

He said the Taliban ran into hiding because they lacked the support of the general muslim population.

He said the Iraqi Shia have sold out to the Americans in exchange for power and the Sunni's will have to rise up against the new Iraqi government after the Americans are gone.

He mourned for his family who was killed which gives some understanding to his resolve as a parent and a father.

The most powerful thing I read was the following paragraph:

"Things may develop faster than we imagine. The aftermath of the collapse of American power in Vietnam-and how they ran and left their agents-is noteworthy. Because of that, we must be ready starting now, before events overtake us, and before we are surprised by the conspiracies of the Americans and the United Nations and their plans to fill the void behind them. We must take the initiative and impose a fait accompli upon our enemies, instead of the enemy imposing one on us, wherein our lot would be to merely resist their schemes."

This clearly indicates to me that an early exit is the last thing we should do if there is any possibility of derailing his plans and any peace in Iraq.

Thanks for the recommended reading. Clarified for me the misguided fanatical this guy really is. My only hope is it is an American who puts a bullet in this bastards head.

Sorry Russell, but the only thing this helped me "understand" was the need to keep up the pressure on these radical extremists until their support declines and they just go away.


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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 

iceman2555 on Thu December 08, 2005 5:36 PM User is offlineView users profile

I am not sure if 'understanding' my enemy is the same gathering the necessary intelligence to eliminate him.....I do understand the reasoning behind much of what is happening in the Middle East today. One only has to read and understand a very old book called the 'Bible'. It outlines all the root causes of todays hatred for the two religions......Jews and Muslims and of course the jealously that rules most of the hatred for the glorious US. The new testament tells the story of Abraham, his wife,Sarah, two sons, Ishmael and Isaac,one born of a slave,Hagar, and one born of his wife. One became the Muslim nation and the other, of course, the Jewish. One was a liar, theft, imposter and very jealous of his 'brother'who became the father of a great nation. Both nations were 'blessed' by the God of the Old testament. But at some time in history one turned. Worship changed....the once great nation of Islam became what it is today. This nation was once mighty, inventive, a powerful productive nation. Now today...broken into different sects that fight, distrust each other, even hate and kill each other, and some have fallen into a state of such poverty and despair that for many the only exit is the martyr death.
This is the foundation of all that exist between the two cultures today.....the hatred of one brother to the other. There is a final answer.....a true and glorious finality to all this strive.....for those not familiar with this book...the final chapter and verse is the called the Book of Revelation. The Second Coming of Jesus will be the cumulate of all this.
Of course, there will be those that say....well...this is just one religion and one belief........and that may be true.....just hope those beliefs put you on with the one true, Three in ONE, Father, Son and Holy Ghost. The song "Imagine" does indeed portray what will occur after the glorious second coming...except for a couple of aspects......there will be a one world religion....instead of no religion.....and unfortunately there will a HELL. My heart breaks for those that will 'forever' be cast into the lake of brimstone. The mind, at least, mine can not compend this amount of suffering.
I 'understand' all to well the motives of my 'enemy'......the hatred, the lies, all the killing or murders, all comes from one source....the great evil one himself....known by many names......Satan, the Devil, Serpent, Lucifer, The Deceiver,and Apollyon, the Destroyer.
This 'battle' will never end....not until 'The Return'....we can fight....politicians can make deals.....but true peace will only come in the final days.
The idea of 'One Muslim' nation seems to lack conviction......one should only look at the discord between the sects today. It is merely another of the 'lies'. If one sect becomes the 'master'......what will become of the other sects....will they become 'infidels' or 'unbelievers'. We already know the 'fate' of those that are not true believers.


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The strongest reason for the people to retain the right to keep and bear arms is, as a last resort, to protect themselves against tyranny in government.
Thomas Jefferson

Russell on Thu December 08, 2005 8:11 PM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: HECAT[/b but the only thing this helped me "understand"

When I stated the need to "understand" these people that is all I really meant. I am in no way an advocate of the Jihad or it's sponsors. I too cried as I watched the 2nd plane crash into the 2nd tower.

My call for understanding is just that. We are battling a foe that few of us has taken time "understand". We are severely misjudging these people. They truly BELIEVE that what they are doing has been decreed by their god! That kind of motivation is going to be hard to come to terms with.

I am just as afraid of a "born again" president who believes that his god put him on earth to deal with this problem. As he has stated this on multiple occasions. He obviously does not have the presence of mind to even read a speach prepared by others. Much less write the eloquent letter as observed in this communication from Al-Zawahiri. This leaves us at a severe 3 yr disadvantage!

I will go back and find the reference to the 60 yr plan, I believe he discusses it twice.

By the way this letter is written TO Al-Zarkawi, not by him.



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The difference between liberators and conquerors is the liberators go home.

Edited: Thu December 08, 2005 at 11:47 PM by Russell

Russell on Fri December 09, 2005 12:28 AM User is offlineView users profile

As all of Al-Zawahiri's letters are written in a type of code. It takes much study to decipher the possible meanings. Much of what he has written references what he has published before. This letter is actually written like an outline.

As he closes (the area below the line of question marks) he explains that he has attempted to reference a writing entitled The Bitter Harvest-The Muslim Brotherhood in 60 Years. If you look near the top of the letter you will notice that when he changes subject matter, he gives each subject a new number. (Similar to an outline in English)

Now look for subject 4 and then paragraph A. Now if you go back to the bottom of the letter you will find The Bitter Harvest marked with a 4. Basically what he is saying is subject 4A refers to the 60 year plan.

He then states that he has lost his copy (the CIA got it!) so that all of his references might not be correct.



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The difference between liberators and conquerors is the liberators go home.

HECAT on Fri December 09, 2005 9:28 AM User is offline

Russell,

I am glad you have clarified this is not a doctrine you are supporting. I do agree we need to educate ourselves (you have used the word, understand) on their strategies and KNOW who our enemies are.

To use some Meaux like phrases; Does it really matter if this was written by "ZarWaWa" or "ZarKaKa"?

I did pick up on what seemed to be double meanings and I appreciate you pointing out references to the 60 year thing but I do lack the interest in studying this any further.



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HECAT: www.hecatinc.com You support the Forum when you consider www.ackits.com for your a/c parts.

FLUSHING TECHNICAL PAPER vs2.pdf 


Edited: Fri December 09, 2005 at 9:41 AM by HECAT

meaux on Fri December 09, 2005 11:02 AM User is offlineView users profile

Hell, I wonder how many letters we're reading here.

Starts off with, "The letter from al-Zawahiri to al-Zarqawi is dated July 9, 2005." and later on towards the end he says, "By God, if by chance you're going to Fallujah, send greetings to Abu Musab al-Zarqawi". Funny, I thought the letter was TO: (al-Zarqawi) ZarKaKa. Then at the end it is signed, "Your loving brother Abu Muhammad".

Anyway, what I got out of it is this is:
Seems a Cleric (al-Zawahiri) is trying with as much respect as possible, (most likely fearing ZarKaKa's rusty blade across his throat) that slaughter is not the way to gain Iraq populance and support if they are going to control the Middle East.

Quote: "Among the things which the feelings of the Muslim populace who love and support you will never find palatable - also- are the scenes of slaughtering the hostages. You shouldn't be deceived by the praise of some of the zealous young men and their description of you as the shaykh of the slaughterers, etc. They do not express the general view of the admirer and the supporter of the resistance in Iraq, and of you in particular by the favor and blessing of God."

Quote: "Therefore, I stress again to you and to all your brothers the need to direct the political action equally with the military action, by the alliance, cooperation and gathering of all leaders of opinion and influence in the Iraqi arena. I can't define for you a specific means of action. You are more knowledgeable about the field conditions. But you and your brothers must strive to have around you circles of support, assistance, and cooperation, and through them, to advance until you become a consensus, entity, organization, or association that represents all the honorable people and the loyal folks in Iraq. I repeat the warning against separating from the masses, whatever the danger."

And another: "However, despite all of this, I say to you: that we are in a battle, and that more than half of this battle is taking place in the battlefield of the media. And that we are in a media battle in a race for the hearts and minds of our Umma. And that however far our capabilities reach, they will never be equal to one thousandth of the capabilities of the kingdom of Satan that is waging war on us. And we can kill the captives by bullet. That would achieve that which is sought after without exposing ourselves to the questions and answering to doubts. We don't need this."

He dosen't understand what's on ZarKaKa's mind: "We must repeat what we mentioned previously, that the majority of Muslims don't comprehend this and possibly could not even imagine it. For that reason, many of your Muslim admirers amongst the common folk are wondering about your attacks on the Shia. The sharpness of this questioning increases when the attacks are on one of their mosques, and it increases more when the attacks are on the mausoleum of Imam Ali Bin Abi Talib, may God honor him. My opinion is that this matter won't be acceptable to the Muslim populace however much you have tried to explain it, and aversion to this will continue."


This kinda sums it up: "We don't want to repeat the mistake of the Taliban, who restricted participation in governance to the students and the people of Qandahar alone. They did not have any representation for the Afghan people in their ruling regime, so the result was that the Afghan people disengaged themselves from them. Even devout ones took the stance of the spectator and, when the invasion came, the amirate collapsed in days, because the people were either passive or hostile. Even the students themselves had a stronger affiliation to their tribes and their villages than their affiliation to the Islamic amirate or the Taliban movement or the responsible party in charge of each one of them in his place. Each of them retreated to his village and his tribe, where his affiliation was stronger!!"

Now for money: "The brothers informed me that you suggested to them sending some assistance. Our situation since Abu al-Faraj is good by the grace of God, but many of the lines have been cut off. Because of this, we need a payment while new lines are being opened. So, if you're capable of sending a payment of approximately one hundred thousand, we'll be very grateful to you".

Even Hitler knew he had to have the People behind him....






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Lazy bum who lives off his wife.

01 BMW 530i Sport, 92 Porsche 968, 85 F150, 72 911, 08 GM SUV, 01' Ford Lightnin'

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