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Clutch plate adjustment pictures?

FrankD. on Sun May 07, 2006 2:33 PM User is offline

Over and over again I see this question on GM forums.

“AC clutch is scraping when AC is off can this be adjusted?”

Are there any on-line pictures showing how to increase the gap on late model GM compressors.

It would be much easier to post a link than try to describe how to use a clutch remover.



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FrankD.

Chick on Sun May 07, 2006 4:15 PM User is offlineView users profile

I can try a couple pics, but I don't have the tool at home... But in the first one you'll see a nut in the center..Some have them, and some don't. They are just there to keep the clutch from flyimng off. On some you can even screw the tool into the "big" threaded hole leaving the nut on if you're just going to back it out a bit. It must come off if you are removing the clutch though


Next is how you measure the gap. A business card is close enough as lomng as it slides all the way around the clutch and pully


The clutch removal tool is threaded into the large hole, and a smaller "bolt" like tool is screwed into it, and pushes against the center shaft as you tighten it, pulling the clutch out a hair. Be careful not to pull it to far, as you will need the installer tool to push it back on....Hope this helps.

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

Chick on Sun May 07, 2006 4:16 PM User is offlineView users profile

Sorry, can't correct my spelling without corrupting the pic links...

Here's a better pic of the threads that the tool screws into...The "Big hole" is what the removal tool screws "into", and the "center" bolt is what the installer screws "onto"



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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

Edited: Sun May 07, 2006 at 7:08 PM by Chick

NickD on Sun May 07, 2006 7:53 PM User is offline

Here is a picture of a GM puller tool that I made some 40 years ago when I was too cheap to buy one.



Very simple, the nut was turned off from a piece of 1 inch hex to 7/8" in diameter and the threads were cut with a lath I had at my disposal at the time. A hole was drilled in the center of the nut to accept a 3/8" standard bolt. The nut would screw into the female thread of the hub with the bolt extracted into the nut. Rotating the bolt CW would press against the compressor shaft pulling the hub away from the compressor.

The same principle is true of the puller installer tool as shown here.




The large nut is on the left hand side, a bit fancier has the hex side is also turned to serve as an installer where that shown trust bearing fits unto, but the thrust bearing is not used for the puller function. The bolt is also a dual function device used both for pulling and installing, A half inch bolt is used with it's screwed end drilled and tapped to screw unto the end of the compressor shaft, but let's forget about that for now. To fill that void in the end of that large bolt the smaller bolt is screwed into it to give a flat surface when pulling. The smaller bolt being below the large nut.

When I went to grab my homemade puller to back out an HR6 hub, wouldn't work as the A6 used an SAE thread and the HR6 uses a very close, but not close enough metric thread, I posted these thread values some time ago, but now would have to remeasure as I have forgotten.

So for the puller function only a nut that can be screwed into the hub with a bolt on the center of it is required to back off or even remove the hub. The bolt can be of any thread as only the flat surface contacts the compressor shaft.

How do you check spelling?

NickD on Sun May 07, 2006 8:46 PM User is offline

Here is a photo of the professionally made tool as a puller.







Identical in function to my homemade tool except the threads are metric.

This is how the same tool looks like when set up as an installer.




Here the bolt is screwed on to the end of the compressor shaft as shown in Chick's picture then the bolt head is held with a wrench, a second wrench is used on the nut part of the tool and screwed in where the thrust bearing contacts the hub and shoves it back in.

One precaution is that a loose square key is used and if that is put in first, it can jam into and ruin the compressor shaft seal. I prefer to line up the keyway slots in the hub and shaft, then tap the key in with a tiny hammer, the thrust bearing then will slide the key and hub in together with no possibility of jamming the key into the seal. That can ruin your day.

Another complication with GM, can't make up their minds whether to use metric or SAE threads. Used this tool okay to pull the hub off a late model GM R-4, but couldn't use it to put it back together. Reason, the inside thread of the bolt that screws unto the compressor shaft threads in the HR6 is metric, but the same thread on the R-4 is SAE, so you can't screw the bolt unto the compressor shaft. Now both female hub threads are metric, so figure that out.

To get around this, found a piece of threaded brass rod in my junk box with the same inner threads on the large nut, I drilled and tapped a 3/8"-24 hole in the end of it, think it was that, but was the right size for the R-4 so I could screw that on, just jammed a bolt in the other end and pinned it in so I could hold that stationary with a wrench while tightening just the nut to force the hub back on the shaft.



Now I know you asked for pictures of the tool mounted on the compressor, but don't feel you should have too much problems visually this. I would have to jack up my car, remove the right front tire, the inner fender, remove the nut off the compressor shaft to install the tool in the installer mode. All my jacks and stands are under the motorhome now, so that would be rather inconvenient at this time, plus it is Sunday. Hope you will understand, and yes, I am lazy.

FrankD. on Mon May 08, 2006 12:42 AM User is offline

Thanks for the pictures.
Wow I did not mean for you to go to all that trouble, thought there might already pictures hiding somewhere.
Chick you are using a tripod or you have the steadiest hands in town.

I remember Nick posting those pictures several years ago but I can not find using Search.
This still shows up under Google search but I can not find it using Search at the top of the page.
http://www.aircondition.com/wwwboard/recent/49217.html
http://www.aircondition.com/wwwboard/recent/53728.html



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FrankD.

jola on Sun November 23, 2008 10:44 PM User is offline

I just came across this. My 95 Bonneville SE is experiencing this metallic scraping noise that seems to be common on GM cars. I had a 95 Firebird and I had a noise and was told that it was the clutch bearings that needed replacing so everything got replaced and it wound up being very costly. How would I be able to see if the problem is the actual clutch plate scraping and not the clutch bearings that are worn?

I picked up the clutch plate removal tool today but then I realized I'd have to evacuate the system and I don't have the tools for that. Can I do this adjustment that is talked about in this thread without evacuating the system? Chick's first post photographs are not available so I don't know what gapping I'm supposed to look at. Thank you for any advice you have to offer.

GM Tech on Mon November 24, 2008 9:09 AM User is offline

I do a bunch of those- a '95 Bonny is a piece of cake- no- you do not have to evacuate system- if noise is only present with a/c off- then you can bet your air gap is too narrow- use a standard business card to test the air gap- it should slip in easily- then go under the passenger wheel well and take splash panel off- to expose compressor- the push electrical conduit aside- and have at it...

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The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

mk378 on Mon November 24, 2008 9:39 AM User is offline

Start by taking the belt off and spin the pulley, make sure it doesn't wobble. If it does the bearing is bad, and that's why it drags and makes noise. You can also replace the bearing without opening the refrigerant lines as long as there is enough space in that particular car to work on it.

Finding the bearing OK, apply the remover tool and pull very slightly. If you go too far, the clutch will not engage and you will need a plate installer to push the plate back on. The remover is a universal fit but as others noted, there are at least two versions of the installer because of different threads on the center shaft.

jola on Mon November 24, 2008 12:41 PM User is offline

I am thinking its the bearings now. I slipped a business card in between the pulley and the clutch hub and it slips in with little resistance. I moved the pulley individually and it doesn't wobble but it makes a noise. However, if I move the clutch hub individually there is no sounds and if I move them together (all by hand) then there is a sound.

mk378, I think I'll have enough room to work on it if I take the splash guard off like GM Tech suggested. I need to take the clutch assembly out to change the bearings though, right? I still don't have to evacuate the system? That would be really cool if I didn't.

Edited: Mon November 24, 2008 at 12:42 PM by jola

mk378 on Mon November 24, 2008 3:04 PM User is offline

To change the bearing, take the clutch plate all the way off, then you will see a snap ring on the outside of the compressor hub-- remove it. Pull the pulley/bearing assembly off, a standard gear puller will work. Press the bearing out of the pulley or replace both as a unit. The clutch plate and pulley should be treated as a matched set since they wear into each other.

jola on Tue November 25, 2008 3:39 PM User is offline

Progress has been swift this day! Ok, I removed the clutch plate and the pulley. I brought it to a guy downtown to take out and put in a new bearing assembly. Now, I don't have any tools for reassembly. Can the pulley assembly just get pushed back on by hand or with a rubber mallet? Also, should I put any sort of lube on the plate surfaces?

As for pushing the clutch plate back on, will this tool work for me as well?

http://www.autozone.com/in_our_stores/loan_a_tool/air_conditioning/clutch_hub_installer.htm

Or will I have to shop around for something GM specific?

I apologize for all the questions but I can say I appreciate the amount of advice here tremendously.

Edited: Tue November 25, 2008 at 3:46 PM by jola

Chick on Wed November 26, 2008 7:44 PM User is offlineView users profile

You will need the clutch installer tools, check out this link on changing front seals and the the tools needed for removal and installation are listed there.. GM specific and there are two shaft sizes, yours will be the smaller I believe.. I'm at home so can't take the photo of it.. Sorry..
Hope this helps..

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

jola on Wed November 26, 2008 7:55 PM User is offline

That is a very useful link. Thank you very much.

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