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Jaguar any good? Pages: 12

mhamilton on Wed February 06, 2008 9:28 PM User is offlineView users profile

I've just been looking online at the late model XJ8 sedans, I have to say that I really like the Jag styling. Since I have no plans to buy a new GM car, but would like to buy a car made in this century...

My neighbor had an XJ12 back in the mid '90s, always liked that car. The models from ~5 years ago look much the same, and I see that they were redesigned with an aluminum body recently. The interior seems like another variation of the MB/BMW theme, but I'm impressed that it's not burdened by the same electronic bologna as all the other makes. I don't like video screens and iControls everywhere.

But, I'm also seeing cars only 3 to 5 years old selling for $10-$15k, and with less than 50k miles. Are they as troublesome as the rumors? Do they even use Lucas for wiring anymore? I wouldn't be too worried about electric problems, I'm sure they're exaggerated, and could sort those out myself. But don't want one of these 5/6 speed autos exploding at 50k miles.

chris142 on Wed February 06, 2008 11:43 PM User is offline

Troublesome ain't the word. Wait till you price parts! I'll keep my jeep

NickD on Thu February 07, 2008 7:35 AM User is offline

Laughed when Ford said with their experience in quality, they will correct all the ills of Jaguar when they purchased them. Heard that when my Continental was falling apart. Buddy has a 96 X something, claims it has been troublefree for him. But that was before Ford purchased them. Do Ford dealers sell Jags? We supposingly have the largest Ford dealership in the state, but I have never seen a Jaguar there. It is big, over 20 acres of cars. Can you find distributor springs for a Jag? You know what I mean with that question.

I don't even understand our trade policies with the Germans and British, we each are charging each other unbelievably high tariffs, but paying the Asians to bring their crap over here. I really haven't touched a Jag since the 60's when times were different and better. The German and British cars back then were very refreshing and fun and use to prize German made cameras and British made vacuum tubes. Prices were competitive, but not anymore.

Only reliable vehicle Ford has been making recently was their cheapest, the Escort, both heard and experienced that, and also heard that is why they dropped it in favor of the Focus.

I have no idea how the Jag is today, haven't even seen one on the street.

mhamilton on Thu February 07, 2008 10:05 AM User is offlineView users profile

I really don't know how prices are for parts, or how availability is. Nick, I do know what you mean about the dist springs, but hopefully with the computer controlled drivetrain, esoteric parts like that will not be an issue.

I'm not even sure where a Jag dealer is around here. I expect there's one in Raleigh (they do have a Rolls dealer). I've seen a few of the new S type Jags around, those are the cars with the 6" wide oval grille. Not sure a dealer is really important, with parts available online.

I don't know, I think the good looks may be the deciding factor for me... with all other new cars today looking like beige clay. Can even get a long wheel base model, with huge back seat leg room like the old MB SEL models.

NickD on Thu February 07, 2008 11:47 AM User is offline

Found this on bay motors about 240 miles from me, no reserve, bid at about $10K, but read what the seller has to say.

"You are viewing a rare low mileage 2002 Jaguar Vanden Plas. This supremely elegant VDP features a gorgeous Platinum Silver exterior, along with a beautiful Charcoal leather interior with a Ivory/beige piping and many luxurious cabin appointments. Needless to say, this is a stunning color combination for this world-class luxury touring sedan, and certainly the one that was front and center on the showroom floor at any of the leading Jaguar dealerships. This gorgeous Jaguar was driven only 44,500 since new and from it's wonderful condition, you would think they were alot less. I hope the pictures do this beauty justice, because in person, she is in great condition. Let me take you on a personal tour of this wonderful luxury touring sedan.


I have had the good fortune of driving this exceptional Jaguar on several occasions, and it drives superbly. This Vanden Plas is an absolute pleasure to drive. It has a silky smooth electronic five speed automatic transmission. Whether you are planning an extended trip, or just looking for comfortable and stylish day-to-day driving, this sophisticated and rare 2002 JAGUAR VDP sedan is the perfect choice.

As you would expect from a Jaguar, this 2002 V-8 luxury sedan is loaded with features such as dual heated-power seats with memory system, rear heated seats, Moonroof, Traction Control, rear park-distance control, front and side airbags, the upgraded Alpine premium 320W high-power audio system with a 6 Disc CD changer mounted neatly in the trunk, and the Burl-wood steering wheel, shift knob and tray tables in the rear. It has so many features that to list them all would be near impossible. I have all the books the car came with as well as both remotes and 2 keys.

Of course the Carfax report is spotless, indicating a well maintained, accident free car. If you are in the market for a very nice, optioned up JAGUAR V-8 VANDEN PLAS, then consider your search over. New this Jaguar was over $63,000.00, just a few years back. I am offering this VDP up for auction @ NO RESERVE to the Highest Bidder........ I do not expect it will last long, so call now to make it yours.

I have been in the automotive industry for over 27 years and my goal is to allow you an opportunity to purchase a unique and exceptional vehicle at below market prices. I am able to do this because I do not have the overhead of a big new car store. I do not intend to bring you run of the mill cars, but only those that are special because of make, mileage, age or color. I try to disclose everything about my cars, they are pre-owned and may have a some minor wear, a tiny nick, or micro paint chip here or there, but all in all they are in fantastic condition I also try to bring you cars that have never been smoked in. The most important quality I look for is condition. The savings most of the time can be awesome. If you have any questions about this or any of my other auctions please feel free to contact me. "

Sure sounds like a load of BS to me. But sure a fine looking car, maybe I will bid on it and put it up on my mantle.

mhamilton on Thu February 07, 2008 12:32 PM User is offlineView users profile

Oh yes, I was looking at that same auction last night. If you just search "Jaguar XJ8" in Cars, then select the ~1998-2008 range, will see about 60 low mileage vehicles priced $8-$25k. The XJ did change (I think) in 2003 to an updated design, but stayed largely the same.

If I understand the factory brochure correctly, there's the XJ with the regular wheelbase. Then the XJ L with the extended wheelbase. And the Vanden Plas is a trim option on the LWB. There are also 2 other XJ options with a supercharged engine.

The only thing I'm not sure about is on the LWB side profile, the rear doors seems disproportionately large.



Edited: Thu February 07, 2008 at 12:35 PM by mhamilton

NickD on Thu February 07, 2008 12:54 PM User is offline

I just typed in "Jaguar XJ8", my zip code, and distance nearest first, that one was on the top of the list, but with no year specified, 128 Jags popped up. Even the buy it now prices for a 3 year old low mileage vehicle with warranty seem low with a new price tag of over $60K. And some of the descriptions are fantastic which leads a guy to ask, why are they even selling these things? Has to be a reason, course, that was your original question.

My 73 Fleetwood had a large rear door like that, the only vehicle I have ever owned where I could stretch out my legs, well besides a motorhome.

mhamilton on Thu February 07, 2008 5:26 PM User is offlineView users profile

The other makes that have a LWB chassis seem to have a better look with the rear door. For example, the Mercedes makes the quarter window part of the door, so the glass is more divided. Something about that large window panel on the Jag doesn't look great. But, the SWB models look good.

Actually, just looking at the newer models, they have done exactly that. This is an '05 LWB. But, I like the older grille better.



You're right though, I do want to know why these are going at fire sale prices. Found a Jag forum, have to browse that some more. Other than a problematic sway bar link, not much.

NickD on Thu February 07, 2008 5:49 PM User is offline

Are these those old fashion seal beam head lamps that you can still buy for about 5 bucks a piece?



My Pace Arrow uses the rectangular type four head lamp system, I paid around 8 bucks a piece for the blue halogen types and put in four of the hi-lo beams so if one of the outside units goes bad, can replace it with an inside unit rather than the hi beam only types. Is nice compared to paying up to 300 bucks for a piece of plastic and that doesn't even include the bulb.

Dealer wanted $9K for my DeVille in 99, offered him half of that with tax and title, he took it, said it sat on the lot for a long time, people are scared of buying a high end car, doesn't scare me, going in debt does. Could be one reason for the low prices on the Jaguars. How much is a sway bar link? LOL

Karl Hofmann on Thu February 07, 2008 6:21 PM User is offlineView users profile

To be honest I don't think that a modern Jag is any more troublesome than a Beemer and certainly less than a Merc though electronic problems are always a headache on European cars.. The engines and transmission are pretty good.. Just before Christmas I worked on a ladies XKR with a toasted ac compressor (Boy is that tight to access) The car had been driven hard and had quite high milage but the engine was sooo sweet sounding and the cabin although cramped and dated was still a very nice place to be... Prices here are pretty reasonable for parts which makes them quite popular.. I've nearly bought one on a couple of occasions but sanity has returned to me just in time.

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

NickD on Thu February 07, 2008 6:43 PM User is offline

I checked on parts costs at rockauto, are they still using conventional tapered wheel bearings? Dirt cheap compared to hubs, most of the part prices are in line with domestic, no rotors or exhaust pipes listed, but pads are the same price, didn't list any struts or shocks, head lamps are only ten bucks each, rear calipers are expensive at 170 bucks each, but so are GM's with four wheel disk brakes. Least rock does list some parts, but not nearly as much as a domestic car. Then will you ever need to buy a replacement part?

Wonder about their PCM, flashram crap?

mhamilton on Thu February 07, 2008 9:25 PM User is offlineView users profile

Thanks Karl... it does sound like a viable option for my next car. I'm not sure how the new BMWs are with their electronics--I always heard they were a lot of trouble overall. Maybe that was just their engine.

Thanks Nick for looking up those part prices. It is nice to know that I wouldn't be going to the dealer to get brake pads or light bulbs.

I think I will start looking around locally, I should take a look at one in person. I had heard that some Jags had low headroom, I do want to see for myself about that.

Karl Hofmann on Fri February 08, 2008 8:30 AM User is offlineView users profile

There are loads of independant Jag parts suppliers here in the UK who will ship to the US on line so I guess that the main dealer can be avoided for most stuff.

Most manufacturers are supplying diesel versions and for once I would be inclined to avoid the diesels as they have become uber complicated in order to make the car more "Petrol like".

I understand that Ford may sell Jag off to the Indians... Still we have Aerial.. Six guys working in a garden shed LOL

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

NickD on Fri February 08, 2008 10:21 AM User is offline

Ha, us guys really get a bug up our rears and want to buy something different, did show pictures of that Jag to my wife last night, see didn't like it, plastic wood grain is not in her taste. Tells me to be looking at a Toyota Land Cruiser instead, that could be a lot more practical in our global warming climate. Cleared off my driveway last Sunday, snowing again today with overnight temperatures dropping to 20 below. Wonder how cold it would get if we didn't have global warming? Can't remember any year where we had months of constant subzero temperatures, normally just a couple of weeks in January, but had that in November, December, January, and February this year. Besides eating chit, does Gore also spit it out?

I bounce back and forth between extremely complicated vehicles and the most basic, nothing like having ATC blow out 195* air on a 90* day when you are two hundred miles away from home with constant thunderstorms dropping huge buckets of rain. Or dropping a window at the toll booth not to have it come back again in sub zero weather, or having a torque converter seal deciding to leak when you are 450 miles from home on the 4th of July with everything closed down. The more crap you have, the more problems that come with it. But I will never learn that.

88 Supra is a pretty complicated vehicle with seven some odd computer systems all data linked together, think it is seven, should count those again, but is using all tungsten contacts in the many switches and had all well greased water proof connectors. But it does have all burnt in PROMS where a tiny one volt spike on the wrong pin won't kill the OS like all these new pieces of crap are using. That is the dumbest thing I ever heard off, expecting pica Coulomb bits of charged trapped in a gate to retain all this information your car depends upon just to run on, not to mention what turns off those dozens of lights or keeps the radio running while the ignition switch is turned off so your battery isn't stone dead the next morning.

So how does the Jag rate in these little things? PROM? Self diagnostics you can do, or flashram only your dealer can do, tungsten contacts, weather proof connectors? I didn't see a fuel pump listed at rock, is that a slot car motor buried in the gas tank? Another really stupid idea. And those motors are really a first class piece of crap, even the 400 buck ones.

Another characteristic I have, is when I need a part, I want it now, when I needed a new front brake hose for my motorhome, even though it has the motorhome chassis that is different than other P30's, I got it now, but did have to wait overnight for the shocks and two days for the air bags. Didn't like my Honda's for that reason, and yes, Honda's need parts too. Have two dealers less than 40 miles away, both crooks charging as much as twice the retail price, claim Honda doesn't have fixed prices on parts, and they are here to serve me and doing me a favor by charging twice as much so they stay in business to be around. Heck, I had to drive 140 miles for parts to a decent Honda dealer, but that trip with money saved more than paid for the difference. How would it be owning a Jag? Maybe not bad in the UK, though my buddy said he never had problems with his 96.

Just like most Americans, would be dead without my vehicles, couldn't earn a living, take my kids to school, (thank god those days are over), wife to work, don't mind that, buy groceries or shop. Somehow the White House and congress figured that out and are really putting the screws to us besides taking over half our paychecks, vehicle expense is all after taxes. Ha, the greenies say to ride your bike, would like to see one of those AH's haul building materials or a refrigerator on their bike, what they want today to deliver that stuff is more than you paid for it.

mhamilton on Fri February 08, 2008 3:02 PM User is offlineView users profile

No '70s-esque plastic picture of wood grain in there... those are real wood trim pieces.

I was reading last night, there is a self diagnostic built in the later models. Not really important to me, I've not missed self diagnostics on my OBDII vehicles.

As long as the windows are better than the Mercedes, which are likely to fall down into the door without warning....

The dealers are all charging the highest prices they can. I drive past Rick Hendrick Chevrolet every day, so stopping for an oil filter or some misc hood bumper is not a problem. The lady at the parts counter knows me by voice on the phone... I'm sure I'm helping to fund Hendrick's retirement. If there is something I need that can wait, I look at one of the online GM dealers that sell at below list price. There's P&G Chevy https://www.partszoneonline.com/ and also GM Parts Direct http://www.gmpartsdirect.com/.

Edited: Fri February 08, 2008 at 6:03 PM by mhamilton

Karl Hofmann on Fri February 08, 2008 7:42 PM User is offlineView users profile

PLASTIC ??????

Those dashes are real tree Nick... One of the things that we do really nicely and the Germans and Japanese just can't copy

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

NickD on Sat February 09, 2008 7:25 AM User is offline

Hmmmm, real tree, last time I had that was in my old 37 Caddy Limo. I go to the sites, too, Mike, just to get the prices and expect my dealers to equal or better them, they do. It's not easy for a guy working on the manufacturing end to have to buy parts on the retail end, markup's are astronomical, and I know there are good government related issues for this, but it wasn't this way back in the 50's or the 60's, we were making mechanical voltage regulators back then in the two buck range selling retail for around 6-7 bucks. Today we are making them at today's prices for well under a buck, but seeing pricetags in over the 150 buck range. Why even brother manufacturing this crap when all the money is in the distribution while you have to put up with all of our government regulation and fines, might as well just manufacture in China to avoid all those problems and that is the way the cookie is crumbling.

But this has a very negative side effect, never heard about the cost of war in WW II, Korea, VN, etc., then the buck stayed here and Uncle Sam got all of it back. Joe would make a buck and pay say 20% to US, leaving 80 cents to Chick, he spent that leaving 66 cents to Brad, Brad spend that to Tim leaving 53 cent, Tim spend that to Harry leaving 42 cents, etc, by passing the buck around here just five times, the government already got 58% of it back, a few more times, they get all of it back.

But when the buck leaves this country, Uncle Sam doesn't get any of it, so has to raise the taxes on the rest of us resulting in huge inflation rates, and a big national debt, that stupid war in Iraq, and a small one at that is putting us deeper in debt than WW II did.

To further complicate matters, the US Mint is not the only place that can print a buck, countries like China, North Korea, and Russia also have the capability to print that buck putting an extra 3/4 of am extra bucks per year in the world market also hurting our buck. These are just little problems hurting this country, and would be nice to have government agencies that help our industries meet whatever standards rather than chase them out of the country.

Can't go on this way, not hearing anyone running for president addressing these issues, wonder which countries they get their paychecks from?

mhamilton on Sat February 09, 2008 7:18 PM User is offlineView users profile

Wow, I've never had a dealer match someone else's price with parts. Usually I get the part number and price from my local dealer, then order from the online dealer if it's an expensive item that's light enough to ship.

Did the '37 have real wood? I guess the limo would have. I'm sure you remember those years were big on metal painted with wood grain for regular cars. That was some impressive work, usually the entire dash and interior window trim was done with the wood grain. Remember a '46 Olds coupe that had it in walnut, was a sharp design with tan upholstery.



NickD on Sun February 10, 2008 8:17 AM User is offline

They don't exactly ask you if you want discount or if you would rather pay retail, you have to insist on it, but in a friendly way, same is true of all the parts store, they have more discount schedules than you can shake a stick at, and you need a state sales tax number and a business card. But that is only the first time, when you keep on going in and they have known you for thirty years, not even a problem. The what is the retail price of the item? Getting a 50% discount of an item that was doubled in price isn't exactly a bargain. This is particularly true of Toyota and Honda in particular my local ones. Also can't do much with my Chevy dealer in town, but can buy any GM part from my Buick dealer, even stuff for the P-30. But walking in there has to be like greeting an old friend. My Chevy dealer has been good about any information I need, looking it up on there computer and giving me a printout. Know the sales manager helps, wants me to keep on coming back to buy a new car.

But I am striking out at the wrecking yards around here, wanting full retail prices on junk parts, 80 bucks for a scratched up parking lamp assembly, got a new one from my dealer for 55 bucks, even with a new light bulb in it ,gaskets and screws. Guess I did order all the parts to change the timing belt on my Supra online, did call my local Toyota dealer and got a heart attack and didn't feel like driving down to Milwaukee. 50 bucks versus 17 bucks was quite a difference for exactly the same belt. Prices are all over the place.

I did do favors for several rebuilders in alternators and generators, the say if I need anything, give them a call, then call me back because they want to know what kind of job they did, because they already know I would take it apart and check them out first, LOL. My good friends in the carburetor business went broke, something about injectors.

Then you run into parts you can't do anything with, like the rear brake calipers on my 78 Fleetwood, that I couldn't do anything with, junk, and a front exhaust pipe on our old 86 Maxima, ha dealer would give me 15 bucks off a 600 price tag, just ended up making my own. All this stuff isn't even tax deductible.

Karl Hofmann on Sun February 10, 2008 2:13 PM User is offlineView users profile

The new Jag XF is a bit of a sweety.. much less like a gentlemans club and more like a driving machine.. Aimed at a much younger driver

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

mhamilton on Sun February 10, 2008 2:35 PM User is offlineView users profile

Oh, sure, if you're in the business you can get a discount. I've seen some invoices from a friend who gets a discount like that, it's minimal from the local dealer. From P&G Chevy, I think I paid $75 for a weatherstrip that lists at $115. That would be around 30% off.

The XF is definitely for a younger crowd. Not my kind of car. I like a big smooth saloon car, with enough rear seat leg room for passengers to stretch out on an 8 hour drive.

NickD on Sun February 10, 2008 3:12 PM User is offline

I just got seasick watching that Jag video, I never get seasick!

BTW, that Jag in IL sold for $14,800, I didn't buy it. My Chevy dealer called me yesterday to see if I wanted to buy a new one, asked him, like the same deal before? Said no deals like that going on now, so I said please call me when you have good deals like that again, he said he will.

Beginning to see local dealers on ebay motors, business must be bad. Could the price of gas have anything to do with that? Can buy a new SUV for $30K with 0% financing for 500 bucks a month, but will cost you more than that in gas if you drive a couple of thousand miles per month.

We are suppose to get a couple of bucks back from the government and suppose to use that on stuff made in the USA to help the economy. I think some of our food is made here yet, but not sure. Anybody think about balancing our trade policies?

What part of China are Jaguars made?

Karl Hofmann on Sun February 10, 2008 5:36 PM User is offlineView users profile

LOL Nick.. In a few years the XF might be able to prise my wallet open.. That advert is absolutely fabulous..But just for you oldies the Jag XJ is a bit more comforting but here is the XF without the sea sickness

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

mhamilton on Sun February 10, 2008 6:32 PM User is offlineView users profile

Have to watch the XJ video, but the XF is definitely the opposite of what I like. Any car that has a "start" button is automatically off my list.

Anyone else notice how many people these days are driving around with no lights on? Of course, their dash is glowing, why bother with head or tail lights?

Karl Hofmann on Sun February 10, 2008 6:51 PM User is offlineView users profile

Heavy cruisers like the XJ and ugly retro style stuff like the S-Type have very limited appeal to drivers in their thirties and forties. They tend to prefer the more up to date, lighter sharper vehicles. Jaguar is seen these days an old boys car, but this style is out of time with what the buyers want these days. In the Sixties and early Seventies they were the choice of bank robbers and bad guys which gave them a certain rakish kudos but those days have long gone and they have got to find themselves a new market, can't live in the past for ever.

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

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