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My HP Desktop giving me fits.....

GM Tech on Wed April 02, 2008 11:57 AM User is offline

Seems I hardly ever use it anymore- it's about 4 yrs old- the daughter and I both use the wireless laptops- but it is connected to the printer- and now hardwired to the router hub-- but almost every time I use it-- it will -for no known reason-- re-boot itself- at intermittent times- last night it did it twice within a half hour-- once on intial start-up- before it completetly loaded- then again after 20 minutes of web surfing- If I have any thing not saved- then I'm reaaly pissed. The power supply is not fading- the fan stays running- no blips- on the 110 circuit- the monitor just goes black and then re-boots.....I am tempted to clean the internals- thought maybe heat build-up was the problem- but since it did it last night on a cold-start-up- there goes that theory- I suppose I coiuld open it up and check mother board connections- or do the wiggle test on all components- perhaps that would offer some insight... I just thought I'd ask before exploring on my own.....

Also- what is the best way to send stuff to my printer through my wireless network? I assume I need a printer adapter to plug into my hub- or do I go wireless-- this way I could print without using the "possessed" desktop.... Thanks


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The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

mhamilton on Wed April 02, 2008 1:07 PM User is offlineView users profile

Are you getting any error beeps or messages once it restarts? I worked on a system with similar issues, only this would come up with "overheat protection shutdown" or something like that. The BIOS was shutting off the computer because it thought the processor was overheating. Sometimes would happen after 30 seconds, other times it would work for hours. I tried everything with that, new thermal paste, new fan. Those seemed to fix it for a while, but the next day it was back to shutting down. Was thinking the processor temp sensor was shot, but ended up swapping the motherboard first. That solved the problem. (sorry I don't remember the make of the board, but I believe it was a Pentium III chip)

For the printer, you would need a networked computer connected to share it, or get a standalone print server that you can connect to the wired/wireless network.

mhamilton on Wed April 02, 2008 1:07 PM User is offlineView users profile

Are you getting any error beeps or messages once it restarts? I worked on a system with similar issues, only this would come up with "overheat protection shutdown" or something like that. The BIOS was shutting off the computer because it thought the processor was overheating. Sometimes would happen after 30 seconds, other times it would work for hours. I tried everything with that, new thermal paste, new fan. Those seemed to fix it for a while, but the next day it was back to shutting down. Was thinking the processor temp sensor was shot, but ended up swapping the motherboard first. That solved the problem. (sorry I don't remember the make of the board, but I believe it was a Pentium III chip)

For the printer, you would need a networked computer connected to share it, or get a standalone print server that you can connect to the wired/wireless network.

NickD on Wed April 02, 2008 2:10 PM User is offline

A couple of months ago, a WD HD, a tad over a year old went south, out of warranty, purchase that HD with a new HP SR1638NX desk top. Two days ago, switch on my 1998 Compaq Prosignia, monitor wouldn't come on, and got beeps like crazy. Found the ATI video card headed south, had a spare Diamond Viper and a Creative GeForce video card, but would only work in Windows 98SE in VGA 16 color mode. As soon as I loaded the 98 drivers, sucker would crash. That rang a bell ten years ago when I first got this box, had to stick with that cheap ATI card and download drivers from the Compaq site for that card, even the ATI drivers would crash.

It was only a couple of weeks ago I got rid of a couple 450 MHz Gateways and wish I didn't, I need a computer with a couple of ISA slots so I can use my SCSI scanner that is legal size, been doing a lot of immigration work again. Told a couple of friends about my problems, both dropped off 850MHz Gateways, glad to get rid of them. I learned the mainboard would fit my Compaq case, but had to fool around a bit to make connectors for the front panel LED's, speaker, and the power switch, so my old Compaq is running again, and running about three times faster than the old mainboard.

I have had problems with this computer as many others before, all I did was take it apart and blow out the dust, these things are great electronic air cleaners. Use a #2 pencil eraser to lightly clean off the PC contacts pins, especially on the memory, and they normally work again. Did find a couple of ATI video cards on ebay, guys wanted 50-70 bucks for that piece of crap, no way.

GM Tech on Wed April 02, 2008 2:29 PM User is offline

No error messages whatso-ever-- just flat out re-boots at will---

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The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

JJM on Wed April 02, 2008 2:30 PM User is offline

If there are no blue screen error messages and the system just shuts down, the power supply is suspect in my opinion (ditto for laptops by the way). If you had a fancy scope like NickD, you could probably see something going awry on a waveform, but for those of us less sophisticated, we just replace the power supply. Replace the power supply with a NEW, preferably OEM unit - a used one could be just as flaky - and I bet your PC will be as good as new. I've seen this a number of times.

Could be the mobo as well as MHamilton pointed out, but my money would be on the power supply. Do you have another PC you can swap a power supply out of (be sure it's powerful enough)?

With the exception of the PC in my garage, I don't have a single printer hooked up to a PC; all my printers throughout the house either have internal or external Ethernet print servers... only way to go. Many new printers now have wireless connectivity as well as Ethernet.

Joe

TRB on Wed April 02, 2008 3:04 PM User is offlineView users profile

Check your RAM.

Download this and burn it to a book disk.

http://www.memtest86.com/

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When considering your next auto A/C purchase, please consider the site that supports you: ACkits.com
Contact: ACKits.com

GM Tech on Wed April 02, 2008 3:27 PM User is offline

My first thought was the power supply- and yes I can swap one out with another PC-- but I was watching one night when it did it-- the power light (and fan) did not flicker a bit-- I do get CPU usage at times at 100%- and some screen freeze-ups while typing- so I'll try Tim's suggestion-- Thanks- for all the good comments...

JJM can you provide a link to a printer server add-on-- thanks

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The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

NickD on Wed April 02, 2008 4:11 PM User is offline

Should an an ATX power supply with a connector like this.








Practically any supply I have seen has the voltages listed on a label with the minimum to maximum current ratings, that do require resistive loads to meet the minimum ratings as some kind of load is necessary for a switchmode power supply. But if any damage was done to the mainboard, it was done already so I just check it while it's still plugged in using a straight pin from above to first check the voltages, hardly have to use a scope.

Testing outside of the computer can be done, but without a load, the voltages will be higher, and doesn't seem to hurt them, just plug it in and touch that green power on lead to a black ground wire for less than a second, should hear the fan turn on and measure the voltages shown on the connector above. A second touch on that green wire to black should turn it off.

Have plenty of surge protectors throughout my home, typically what happens is the input AC to DC filter capacitor blows with it's driving transistor, cheaper to buy a new one than to repair it, and there are literally millions of these laying around someplace. With a good power supply, if the screen goes black, checking the memory right away, mostly just the pins need a cleaning, if you have 2 or 3 banks, only a module in bank 0 or 1 is needed for the monitor to come on.

JJM on Wed April 02, 2008 5:48 PM User is offline

GM Tech:

Here's the link to HP's print servers, similar to what I use:

HP Print Servers

I'm using the earlier versions of the JetDirect 300 and 500 - the EX and EX Plus. As long as your printer has its own processor, you can use a print server. Cheapo printers that offload the processing to Windows - so called "Windows printers" - often will not work with any print server. You can get the EX and EX Plus for next to nothing on eBay, sometimes even brand new units. Keep in mind with these older print servers, you will lose multifunction capability like scan, fax, ink monitoring, but printing functions remain largely unaffected.

Memory problems on Windows machines typically blue screen out, along with freezing ups, which is why I've ruled memory out. And I'm not condemning the power supply because I think it is intermittently cutting out; it probably is providing continuous voltage... though not in the amount or quality your motherboard likes. That is probably why it is rebooting. By the way, a momentary blip from the power supply is unlikely to affect the LED indicator or fan. I assume your PC being about 4 years old is ATX, so the power LED is likely powered by the motherboard, not the power supply. And the fan probably has enough momentum that momentary blips would likewise be unnoticeable. I would try swapping out that power supply from the unit PC you have, I bet it will work just fine with the known good unit. Power supply output issues are a lot more commonplace than many would believe.

NickD:

I have an ATX tester that you plug into the ATX supply connector that simulates motherboard load, and lights up its test LED if good, not to mention powering up the power supply and fan. It's great for quickly ruling out a dead power supply, but by no means a definitive test for power quality.

Joe

HerkyJim on Wed April 02, 2008 8:46 PM User is offline

Bought a brand new Toshiba laptop a few years back. Plugged the phone line in and set the dial=up and went on-line. This before I did anything else, like install a firewall or Spybot/Spwatreblaster/Adaware, etc.

Well, picked up some sort of malware in just those few minutes that caused the computer to reboot itself randomly. There was some cleaner prpgram to deal with it, but I just wiped the harddrive of my brand new computer totally clean and ran the restore disk. No more problem.

I just use (all freeware) Comodo firewall, SpyBlaster anti-malware, Avast antivirus, AdAware, and Spybot. Never had aproblem since using them. Once i a great while the Avast will warn me about soemthing malicious .

NickD on Wed April 02, 2008 9:54 PM User is offline

I was also going suggest the possibility of a worm or virus, thing is with ATX machines, you can't really turn them off, no power supply switch, always in a standby mode, and they can be switched on remotely and switch off, all logic controlled. A worm or virus can be made to do the same thing.

Never know what's wrong with a computer until I play with it, on tough cases, reduce it to a minimum system, power supply, mainboard, one SIMM chip known to be good, a floppy drive, video card, monitor, then go from there. Even an HD with a known good OS in it, one that never saw the net.

GM Tech on Thu April 03, 2008 9:27 AM User is offline

Thanks to all- great advice!! Now, If I could just get inside the house before 10pm to work on this stuff-- The weather is finally good enough to start on outdoor projects-and I got two calls last night about fixing some a/c problems....next thing, the grass will start growing, and animals will want fed- plus I still have to do my taxes--and my brother and new wife and son are coming to visit from Fiji. So I'm knee deep right now I'll swap power supplies first......

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The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

Chick on Thu April 03, 2008 6:22 PM User is offlineView users profile

Hate to say it but my old one began doing the same thing a while back.. Got tired of changing computers when they crashed so I found this site and they were very helpful. After backing up as much as I could (didn't get it all even though I saw the crash coming) I did get the confidence from these people to exchange my old hard drive and my computer is good as new..I now back up regularly and when it happens again, I'll be ready... Used a seagate 320 GB hard drive to replace the samsung that came with the HP computer I had..Love it, quiet and fast... Just a thought..

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Chick
Email: Chick

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Freedoms just another word for nothing left to lose

NickD on Thu April 03, 2008 11:25 PM User is offline

Seagate is my favorite drive, have one that is over 18 years old now and still going strong, are very quiet, and have a five year warranty. Did buy a WD last year, needed one in a hurry, only lasted 13 months and wasn't even the primary drive, went to send it back to learn it only had a one year warranty. So I Seagates, also have 320 GB, but with two 160 GB, that way I can back up one to the other.

So far we have, I think it's the:

Power supply
Mainboard
Memory
A Virus
A Hard drive
Bad connections

Could also be a bad AC outlet connection or even a loose connection at that circuit breaker box.

Anymore ideas?

GM Tech on Fri April 04, 2008 8:59 AM User is offline

Breaker box????? Yeah... maybe in a home built after 1960-- Mine was built before 1900-- has oak studs with the wedge straighteners in them-- can't hammer a nail into a stud- have to drill a hole first.....the house was wired in 50's-- then upgraded in the early seventies- has two fuse box panels and one breaker box panel for the baseboard electric heat (no ductwork) -- this is an old farmhouse guys--- came with the farm--- Dad and his Dad never even looked at the house when the (2nd) farm was bought -all they cared about was the quality of the black ground- the house was a liability- they figured they could always burn it down - but then how would they protect the equipment in the barns? - that is when I "volunteered to move in" this is one of the advantages/disadvantages of country living!!

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The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

NickD on Fri April 04, 2008 10:23 AM User is offline

Back in the early 60's when I was designing computers using all discrete components, was a requirement to maintain proper operating voltage to deal with a 3 cycle loss of AC power due to power station switching, to be more conservative, would used six cycles or a power interruption of 100 milliseconds for a glitch free Vcc output. As these power supplies, the old fashion linear rectifier transformer types outputted around 100 amperes, huge banks of capacitors were used to store that electrical energy.

That is ancient history with the switchmode supplies of today, whole purpose is convert that 60 cycles per second even up to the megahertz range so the size of the electrolytic capacitors can be super sub miniature. Like a 2,200 ufd in a 22 amp ATX 5 volt line. One little transient in the AC line and it passes right on through, but they are cheap. Step son in Venezuela was having line problems, so smuggled in a UPS, but didn't bring any receptacles with me, his were badly corroded, while gas was only 9 cents a gallon had to pay 5 bucks for a receptacle that could be purchased here for 39 cents. Also found loose wires in the breaker box. That cured his power problem, but not his internet problems, they should send Chavez to a tech school.

Everybody has computer problems.

NickD on Sat April 05, 2008 7:36 AM User is offline

Since I installed an Intel MB with a GeForce video card, good old Windows 98SE won't shut down, goes as far as leaving a black screen with a flashing line on it. I didn't know that and left my monitor cooking all night, in that mode, auto power shut down doesn't work either.

I downloaded and printed a four sheet troubleshooting sheet from MS and went through every step, none of their suggestions cured this problem. I can just wait until that flashing line appears, then hit the power switch. It boots normally when it powers up again, none of that safe mode crap. MS was nice enough to leave this worthless instruction sheet on the web, but they also have a patch for it that is no longer available.



With these ATX boxes, the power switch was omitted from the back of the power supply, and your power switch is actually a momentary push button switch you are suppose to press for less than a second to power it up, hold it too long, will turn on and turn itself off again. Wasn't that way with Windows 3.1, front panel was a ON-OFF alternate switch, when off, the computer was the same as being unplugged. With many programs running in W3.1, as long as all of your data was saved, didn't have to close all those programs first, just switch the damned thing off, and would boot normally. They should have left it that way. The ATX boxes are always on, and if you are having a thunderstorm, have to pull the plug, I mounted a power switching box with a master switch to kill the entire power to the system. MS and others are not in the real world with their automated crap and trying to make life easy, it's just the other way around.

To give you more suggestions, should know which processor you have and which OS you are running, know you said your computer was about four years old. What the heck, I would have sworn my hot water heater was only 8 years old, but when I finally found the receipt, it was 15 years old, where does the time go?

Joe will correct me on this, but ATX boxes have been around for at least 10-12 years already, I don't keep track of stuff like this. Women are awfully good at remembering dates, don't you remember, you purchased that computer when I was pregnant with your fifth son or something like that.

Practically all the IC's will blow if Vss increases just by one volt? They are made that cheap with practically zero protection, the most basic three layer CMOS layouts, super dirt cheap, until you have problems, then they can rob you blind. This is how our electronic industry has become.

MrBillPro on Sat April 05, 2008 10:25 AM User is offlineView users profile

I am sort of a geek myself and if it were my PC acting like yours I would go with a hardware problem, memory, video,etc. I have seen very few times the OS cause a PC to reboot but a good corrupt one can, could be the power supply, but could be the gpu fan on the video card all your fans especially on the processor have to be spinning the correct rpm's, this is a process of elimination, times like this is when it's good to have tons of extra PC's and parts sitting around like I have.

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Don't take life seriously... Its not permanent.

Edited: Sat April 05, 2008 at 10:27 AM by MrBillPro

NickD on Sat April 05, 2008 2:56 PM User is offline

I found out why Win98SE was not shutting down, one of the computers I got had a Sound Blaster Live card in it that uses system RAM for storing some very large sound fonts. It does really sound great.

But this thing is adding DOS drivers to my autoexec.bat and config.sys files, namely emm386.exe. I rem those off, rebooted, and it shut down perfectly, but when I rebooted the second time SB Live rewrote those DOS files back again so the computer wouldn't shut down. I read enough of the help files that these DOS drivers are only required to play DOS games, but with these DOS programs rubbed out, the card works perfectly fine in Windows.

I went to the Creative site, no upgrades, and couldn't find anything in their help section about shut down problems, these DOS programs do not show up in the Windows task manager, but you know they are running. One solution is to toss the SB Live card, unless I can find the problem that rewriting my autoexec and config files.

Is computer stuff like this that can drive a guy crazy. XP and Vista also drive me crazy treating my personal computer as a public computer and tossing application data all over the place, MS should offer a personal version and exactly who is this administrator? He doesn't know what he is doing either.

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