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Is Ford really making vehicles now equal in quality to Toyota? Pages: 12

NickD on Thu May 08, 2008 7:42 AM User is offline

Does this mean that Ford has increased their quality or has Toyota decreased theirs? Seems like since the 80's Toyota isn't doing as good as they use to, for one thing, many AC problems

After my experiences with early Taurus's, Continentals, Mustangs, and even some Escorts, just about wrote off Ford, but was my favorite car make until 1948, just one problem after another. Surprised that one of my son's 2002 Taurus with 150K on it is still running, but does have a minor AT front seal leak. Can't say much for GM anymore, turning out to be a junk factory. Still have my Supra yet, but the only place I can get decent replacement part prices is from Wilde Toyota in Milwaukee, the dealers around here are professional robbers. Ford dealer is around the block and decent.

Did hear lot's of nasty things about the Focus, still like having a tiny car for in town driving that is most of our driving like anyone else, has this been improved?

Little fed up with GM on this strut bearing problem, I have isolated the problem to that upper stamped sheet metal race not being properly tempered, more than likely a 25 cent at the most part, but they lie to me about that, and I don't like a company that tells lies. And really don't care for a dealer that laughs at me because my car is a couple of miles past the warranty period. No wonder why GM is losing billions.

Has to be one good car company left to deal with.

TRB on Thu May 08, 2008 10:43 AM User is offlineView users profile

Are you making a personal claim or commenting on something published?

My 1995 Toyota Tacoma is running perfectly and the a/c is as cold as the day I bought it. Which reminds me, that guy Vegass used to rant all the time that the manufactures droping the warranty period. As R134a was going to eat the a/c system up from the inside out. 13 years later and that R134a in my system has to be hungry by now. As it has not eaten anything since day one.

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NickD on Thu May 08, 2008 11:01 AM User is offline

Quote
Are you making a personal claim or commenting on something published?

Ford's new TV commercial, "Ford is making cars equal in quality to Toyota".

Have to say Ford in the early 90's to mid 90's vehicles are using much better tin than Toyota, see lot's of Toyota's up here, Land Cruisers, Four Runners, and Pick-ups loaded with rust from that Era, cars are much better in this respect, but still not as good as Ford. That Toyota rust does not seem to hurt the resale value, still want a ton of bucks for them, but the Ford's won't bring a dime in on a trade in. Just all kinds of drive train problems. You probably don't have those rust problems down there.

TRB on Thu May 08, 2008 11:20 AM User is offlineView users profile

I had a 1990 Ford 4x4, total POS.

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mk378 on Thu May 08, 2008 11:37 AM User is offline

Toyota lost a lot of ground at the end of the '90s when they brought out those sludge-prone V6's.

TRB on Thu May 08, 2008 11:41 AM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: mk378
Toyota lost a lot of ground at the end of the '90s when they brought out those sludge-prone V6's.

Run synthetic oil and it's as clean a whistle.



-------------------------
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Contact: ACKits.com

mk378 on Thu May 08, 2008 11:55 AM User is offline

Yeah but they didn't tell anyone that. Those who followed Toyota's instructions to the tee and used conventional oil changed every 7500 miles, had their engines failing right after the warranty expired.

TRB on Thu May 08, 2008 11:57 AM User is offlineView users profile

7500, you have to be kidding! 4000 max in my book.

-------------------------

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Contact: ACKits.com

mk378 on Thu May 08, 2008 12:06 PM User is offline

The owner's manual said 7500 if I remember right. This was because the JD Power and other ratings weight "maintenance costs" as a heavy negative. So just by rewriting the manual for less frequent oil changes, they moved up in the ratings.

Edited: Thu May 08, 2008 at 12:07 PM by mk378

TRB on Thu May 08, 2008 12:26 PM User is offlineView users profile

More sludge should actually hurt their ratings. But you know how it is. People can play with numbers all day long to achieve what they want to be perceived. Global Warming!

-------------------------

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Contact: ACKits.com

brickmason on Thu May 08, 2008 4:31 PM User is offline

1975 F100 4x4 360 engine, granny 4 speed.

Original engine, transmission, transfer case. Rear end rebuilt after 300,000 miles. Now has almost 480,000 miles and still runs strong.

Never saw a Chevrolet tractor! I rest my case.

-------------------------
Just another brick in the wall

Had a little mule I fed him castor oil and every time he jumped the fence he fertilized the soil

HerkyJim on Thu May 08, 2008 6:38 PM User is offline

I'll let you know.

I bought a new Corolla in January. Needed a utility ride ASAP. 2008 model. Zero options. Exactly how I wanted it. Hard to believe how difficult it is to find a bare-bones new car nowadays. Some of us might remember when a radio and/or heater were options.

$14,817 out the door in Fresno. Now has 3,200 miles. I drive the freeway to work. 60 mph. I calculate 40 - 41 mpg avrerage so far. Speedometer and handheld gps agree so assume odometer is accurate. Gas pumps now read gallons to three decimals, are they that accurate?

Nothing to complain about so far. First oil change tomorrow. Plan to use 5-30 conventional oil changed every 3 mos./3,000 miles. Filter every other. Whatever's on sale or WallyWorld Supertech, whichever is cheaper. Couple weeks ago occurred to me that I had not opened the hood yet. Checked oil. Right at the full mark.

Have a Toyota 2 whl pickup '89 model my brother bought new for $6,000. Until last summer, it still blew cold. THats 18 years. He is to-put it mildly-hard on cars. Sat outside in the weather in Fresno all those years. Dark blue paint on the body is still excellent where its not scratched, pitted, or dented. None or imperceptible fading. No checking, etc. The bed is completely faded/oxidized. Whats the difference? He says the trucks were imported from Japan and the beds from Canada.

Couple guys at work bought giant four-door GM pickups last year. Plush. Heated leather seats, sunroofs, etc.etc. In a pickup? Don't compute for me.

USA quality may be rising, but the automakers as well as the rest of us been living in fool's paradise so long, the Chinese will be kicking our butts in every way before we recover, if we ever do. Too bad. Party was great while it lasted.

NickD on Fri May 09, 2008 7:26 AM User is offline

When I purchased my Cavalier, new, they wanted eleven bucks for that paper element and another ten bucks for oil, so was worth it for me to pay 25 bucks for the dealer to change the oil, even got him to spray all those rubber bushings with silicone spray. But the major reason was to get that receipt and file it for proof that the car was properly maintained for the sake of any warranty questions. Plus they also do some kind of 25 point check.

Not so sure I would do that with a new Toyota, nearest "good" dealer is 200 miles away, and with Honda, 125 miles away. The ones around here have that their chit doesn't stink attitude that gets under my skin. Also got really teed when my Supra was just a tad over the warranty limit, the neutral safety switch mounted on the side of the AT right smack next to the catalytic converter fried. Had a personal face to face talk with a Toyota rep, what an arrogant bastard he was on even just giving me a new switch, had to buy a new one, but I also installed a shield between that switch and the cat so that wouldn't happen again.

Another turn off for me with Japanese cars, and I don't know if this was changed recently or not was they don't have any published MSRP for parts, dealer can charge whatever he feels like. Like last year, 450 bucks for that tiny little fuel pump that went sour in my Supra with ethanol gas, all the plastic parts in there were swelled up, dealer couldn't even tell me if the replacement parts were ethanol proof. So I went with a hundred buck American made Carter pump that is ethanol proof.

Youngest kid loves Japan, but worked for one of their game companies and found the Japanese to be very racist against white people, while they needed his skills, he and other white people were very limited on the climb to better positions. I also worked for Honda just for a couple of years, was a paycheck, but more like a brain picking session.

Recently our big three aren't any better laying off thousands of engineers to get cheap parts made in China, not seeing the CEO's taking any kind of a paycut and got equally teed off when my thrust bearings popped right after warranty.

Ha, when I used to like all these goodies they are putting in cars, for what little joy they may give, sure a big PITA when you have problems with this crap. What a racket this automotive industry is, starting with the 1949 models, Detroit gave us rust, spent more time patching rust holes than any mechanical work. Then decent bodies loaded with drivetrain problems. People that I knew that traded off every two years paid more for this junk over a ten year period then they paid for their homes. And instead of over 3,000 car manufacturers with are down to 3 or is it 2 in this country, haven't figured that out yet.

Ha, and while Exxon and GM were in bed together buying and dumping railroads in the 50's and 60's so people had to buy cars and burn gas, sounds like today, Exxon is screwing even GM. Couldn't even find a place to park at my Chevy dealer, lot was overloaded with SUV's and huge pickup trucks that nobody seems to want to buy. Ha, not even one Aveo in stock, not that I wanted to buy that POS, just wanted to kick the tires. Could buy a new Suburban though and even gotten ten free gallons of gas.

2005Equinox on Sat May 10, 2008 3:19 AM User is offline

So far moms Aveo has been a very good little car. How it holds up over the long haul remains to be seen but so far so good with 7000 miles.

-------------------------
2008 Chevrolet Impala LS
1981 Pontiac Bonneville


2007 Sears Craftsman Lawn Tractor


1985 Chevrolet Caprice


1986 John Deere 165 lawn tractor

NickD on Sat May 10, 2008 8:13 AM User is offline

Ha, got on the Ford site and built my own Focus with some kind of free trade-in value on my old car. Instead of sending the value of my car for a trade in, they sent the inquiry to my local dealer. Got an e-mail from them, actually about five e-mails, they have no Focus's in stock, but can give me a good deal on an Expedition.

At my Chevy dealer, trying to buy a thrust bearing, couldn't even find a space to park, one Suburban after another. I have yet to see even one Aveo there, but how about a 30 foot long pickup truck. Chevy would give me 2000 bucks instant cash back on a Suburban, but doesn't seem like very much since the news already reported these SUV's already dropped 20% in value with the high price of gas, shouldn't that be more like a 9,000 buck discount?

Ha, both Ford and GM claim their trucks is where their profits are, guess they don't have a very good crystal ball either.

Heard the price of gas in Milwaukee hit over four bucks a gallon, still $3.70 here, they have a real good supply because demand is way down. Our natural gas does that too, drastically increases the price in the spring, summer, and fall months, because they claim the demand is so low they have to charge more to maintain their operating costs. But they also cream us in the winter as the demand is high. So what does this supply and demand crap have to do with price?

We were just in Milwaukee last Wednesday, but my car never even got close to a Milwaukee gas station, worse gas in the world, think they put in old beer stuff or something, still can make the round trip on a tank with the Cavalier using country gas, well I did fill up within 30 miles of home at a country gas station, but could have made it. Still pay an extra 20 cents a gallon as is the only way I can buy ethanol free gas, so that is pretty close to four bucks a gallon.

Did look at some new Toyota's and Honda's, gosh, these people reinvented the word, ugly, would have to buy a ski mask, not sure if I want to be seen in one of these.

2005Equinox on Sun May 11, 2008 1:14 AM User is offline

I was at the dealer the other day getting the oil changed and an ailgnment done on the 81 Bonneville and they have more used trucks for sale than any other thing on their lot. Oh not to mention new trucks. My salesman said trucks are barely selling.

-------------------------
2008 Chevrolet Impala LS
1981 Pontiac Bonneville


2007 Sears Craftsman Lawn Tractor


1985 Chevrolet Caprice


1986 John Deere 165 lawn tractor

NickD on Sun May 11, 2008 9:20 AM User is offline

This is kind of a repeat in history back from the 70's with that so-called energy crisis, but like an idiot according to my friends and relatives, purchased a Fleetwood for 25 cents on the dollar and a motorhome for 20 cents on the dollar, both practically brand new vehicles already after that initial depreciation. My calculations were based on the initial cost of these vehicles plus the extra I would have to pay in fuel cost. Came out way ahead, especially considering what they were charging back then for those small POS that didn't really get that much better fuel economy anyway. I ended up driving that Caddy into the ground, but was able to sell that motorhome for over twice the price putting 70K on it and enjoying it for about ten years. Ha, that was a bargain.

I do not know how to calculate today, perhaps it was a mistake buying that newer motorhome and hard to believe that two years ago was concerned about gas hitting two bucks a gallon, forty more years of gas has been burnt up with a world economy we were not dealing with back then. Ha, wonder what I would say if Ford offered me a new Expedition or Chevy a new Suburban for a thousand bucks. Will we even have gas to buy tomorrow? Kicking myself for not topping off my 108 gallon motorhome tank before the last November election when it was a buck sixty nine a gallon, but those publickcans said new reserves were found and the price of gas would be coming way down.

Correct me if I am wrong, I don't believed that happened.

Back then, that energy crisis and our dumb leaders open the doors for Japanese vehicles, got rid of the pilot light and instant on TV sets that greatly reduced the life of the picture tube. Today, Sony owns our entertainment industry, GM is going broke, and China is using our bucks to build a strong military that will be used against us. Wal-Mart is making a fortune with salve labor, their prices are not that low, use to sell some stuff made in the USA that is now made in China, but at the same or even higher price.

Have a much smarter bunch of crooks running this country today than thirty years ago that are taxing us anyway that we turn, plus agencies that are exporting all of our pollution rather than finding a cure for it plus letting cheap Mexican labor come in and taking the rest of our jobs.

They are way ahead of me, not sure how to deal with this, but suppose I could buy a hybrid car to save the planet.

HerkyJim on Sun May 11, 2008 12:24 PM User is offline

Say Nick, wasn't it the "Eisenhower recession" about '59 or so, that gave us the Corvair, Falcon, and Valiant? First generation "economy compact car". I was in Jr. High school in '59, so don't remember the details.

Then 1973, and the Arab/Israeli war that casued King Fahd to close the Saudi oil spigot. Stationed then at Andersen AFB, Guam flying C-130 weather reconaissance. We pilots got just one takeoff and landing every 45 days whether we needed it or not, to save fuel. I was a dumb-a$$ copilot then, so I did. AF Military Airlift Command published a little pamphlet "Birds Fly Free; MAC doesn't" with saving gas tips and procedures; Delay engine start, shutdown couple engines for taxi-in, load to aft cg, step-climb, etc. See it has been updated and republished recently.

Line at the one-and-only gas station on-base stretched down the street for a mile. Line up to get a few gallons. I think they restricted how much you could buy. Couldn't hardly give away a "gas guzzler". That and EPA gave us the wonderful first generation of American-made front-wheel drive cars.

Had a '59 VW wagon there. Worst piece of dung car I ever owned, but gas mileage was OK, when it was running.

Pass the RV lots on the way to the airport here. Looks like the inventory is not moving very fast.



Edited: Sun May 11, 2008 at 12:32 PM by HerkyJim

NickD on Sun May 11, 2008 9:22 PM User is offline

FWD vehicles have been played with since day one, but the first production cars imported into the USA was the Mini, followed by the Plymouth Horizon in 1978. Really doubt if the EPA even cares about fuel economy, but does care about HC, CO, and NOx emissions, and if pouring half of your fuel tank into the catalytic converter on a cold engine to increase the warm up time to reduce emissions by a half a point, that is what they want to do. Direct fuel injection has shown increases in both performance and fuel economy by over 30%, but until someone can invent a NOx reducing converter, we will waste all this fuel according to the EPA.

Living in the sticks helped with that gas crunch, but when driving to Milwaukee or Chicago, had to stop at several gas stations before getting close to those towns buying just five gallons at a time. They never checked your fuel gauge here like they did in the larger cities. Fuel prices were regulated so the oil companies refused to supply, least today you can buy all you want, just have to pay the price.

Recall the full service gas station days when gas wars were very popular. Four guys would come out running, one to check the air in your tires, another to check under the hood, a third to clean all of your windows and the forth to put ten gallons of gas in your tank, for a buck. Energy crisis killed all these with the convenience store, no air, a quart of oil was a third the price at your grocery store, and you have to fill your own tank. The gal behind the counter today has to work an hour to buy a gallon after taxes.

Forgot all about RV dealers, another place where you can't find a spot to park, but haven't seen any going out of business signs yet, saw tons of those when over 3,000 RV manufacturers went out of business along with all their dealers back in the 70's.

CorvairGeek on Sun May 11, 2008 11:09 PM User is offline

"but until someone can invent a NOx reducing converter, we will waste all this fuel according to the EPA."

Platinum, palladium and rhodium, there have been 3 way reducing (including NOx) catalyst since the early 80s.


-------------------------
Jerry

Edited: Sun May 11, 2008 at 11:10 PM by CorvairGeek

NickD on Mon May 12, 2008 6:30 AM User is offline

Quote
Platinum, palladium and rhodium, there have been 3 way reducing (including NOx) catalyst since the early 80s.

Apparently not good enough for the EPA including direct fuel injection or that Australian two cycle blown engine. My source of this information is Automotive Engineering, an SAE publication. Another source is there just ain't any gas powered direct injection cars on the market, and this concept was tested over ten years ago.

Is it possible the EPA is working for the oil companies? Not logical, if fuel consumption were to decrease by 30%, oil companies would increase the price by 50% plus gas tax would increase also by that much, history already proved that.

Ha, and if GM can ever find a double AA cell to power their Chevrolet Volt that works, we probably will get a fuel tax on our electrical bill to run our refrigerators, light bulbs, and HVAC systems. And that tax will be there whether we own a Volt or not. Plus the rates will go up as so will the demand. This is not a pessimistic remark, more of a historical comment.

Edited: Mon May 12, 2008 at 8:43 AM by NickD

Travis on Sat May 17, 2008 4:51 AM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: HerkyJim
I'll let you know.



I bought a new Corolla in January. Needed a utility ride ASAP. 2008 model. Zero options. Exactly how I wanted it. Hard to believe how difficult it is to find a bare-bones new car nowadays. Some of us might remember when a radio and/or heater were options.



$14,817 out the door in Fresno. Now has 3,200 miles. I drive the freeway to work. 60 mph. I calculate 40 - 41 mpg avrerage so far. Speedometer and handheld gps agree so assume odometer is accurate. Gas pumps now read gallons to three decimals, are they that accurate?



Nothing to complain about so far. First oil change tomorrow. Plan to use 5-30 conventional oil changed every 3 mos./3,000 miles. Filter every other. Whatever's on sale or WallyWorld Supertech, whichever is cheaper. Couple weeks ago occurred to me that I had not opened the hood yet. Checked oil. Right at the full mark.



Have a Toyota 2 whl pickup '89 model my brother bought new for $6,000. Until last summer, it still blew cold. THats 18 years. He is to-put it mildly-hard on cars. Sat outside in the weather in Fresno all those years. Dark blue paint on the body is still excellent where its not scratched, pitted, or dented. None or imperceptible fading. No checking, etc. The bed is completely faded/oxidized. Whats the difference? He says the trucks were imported from Japan and the beds from Canada.



Couple guys at work bought giant four-door GM pickups last year. Plush. Heated leather seats, sunroofs, etc.etc. In a pickup? Don't compute for me.



USA quality may be rising, but the automakers as well as the rest of us been living in fool's paradise so long, the Chinese will be kicking our butts in every way before we recover, if we ever do. Too bad. Party was great while it lasted.



-------------------------
1993.5 Single Turbo Toyota Supra 714RWHP
1985 Suburban
1997 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP

Travis on Sat May 17, 2008 4:52 AM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: HerkyJim
I'll let you know.



I bought a new Corolla in January. Needed a utility ride ASAP. 2008 model. Zero options. Exactly how I wanted it. Hard to believe how difficult it is to find a bare-bones new car nowadays. Some of us might remember when a radio and/or heater were options.



$14,817 out the door in Fresno. Now has 3,200 miles. I drive the freeway to work. 60 mph. I calculate 40 - 41 mpg avrerage so far. Speedometer and handheld gps agree so assume odometer is accurate. Gas pumps now read gallons to three decimals, are they that accurate?



Nothing to complain about so far. First oil change tomorrow. Plan to use 5-30 conventional oil changed every 3 mos./3,000 miles. Filter every other. Whatever's on sale or WallyWorld Supertech, whichever is cheaper. Couple weeks ago occurred to me that I had not opened the hood yet. Checked oil. Right at the full mark.



Have a Toyota 2 whl pickup '89 model my brother bought new for $6,000. Until last summer, it still blew cold. THats 18 years. He is to-put it mildly-hard on cars. Sat outside in the weather in Fresno all those years. Dark blue paint on the body is still excellent where its not scratched, pitted, or dented. None or imperceptible fading. No checking, etc. The bed is completely faded/oxidized. Whats the difference? He says the trucks were imported from Japan and the beds from Canada.



Couple guys at work bought giant four-door GM pickups last year. Plush. Heated leather seats, sunroofs, etc.etc. In a pickup? Don't compute for me.



USA quality may be rising, but the automakers as well as the rest of us been living in fool's paradise so long, the Chinese will be kicking our butts in every way before we recover, if we ever do. Too bad. Party was great while it lasted.


I'd run the oil to 5k with a filter change at every oil change. Whatevers cheapest will work fine.

-------------------------
1993.5 Single Turbo Toyota Supra 714RWHP
1985 Suburban
1997 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP

NickD on Sat May 17, 2008 8:25 PM User is offline

Ha, for compulsive oil level checkers, their oil level decreases for each wipe of the dip stick by that amount. Read that guys that switched to synthetic oils after a couple of hundred miles never broke in their engines and had oil burners the rest of their lives. That led to learn if their is such a thing as a break-in oil, never found those. Let the dealer change the oil during the warranty period as proof it was done, he always put on a sticker, next oil change was due in 3,000 miles, regardless. But since I do a lot of highway driving, the manual says every 7,500 miles. At three thousand miles the oil was still nice and clear yet, could barely see it on the dip stick. One dealer told me to change it at 3,000 miles the first go around, another said leave the oil in there to properly brake in the engine. I split the difference and waited until the oil turned a dark tan for the first change, still do that. With 43K on it, do not have an oil burner, normally have it changed at about 5,500 miles with mixed driving, but still mostly highway, when it gets a dark tan.

Since the car is out of warranty now, should pull the compressor, idler pulley, and alternator bearings to see if any grease is left or whether was put in there in the first place, sure wasn't any in the strut thrust bearings with rusty balls inside. I do have grease fitting in the tie rod ends, but none on the two lower ball joints, was going to install those when I pulled the struts, but forgot.

Took my wife to classes today in a town with a Honda dealer, if I were to buy a new Civic, would have to have major body surgery done to be comfortable like legs and torso shortened and the interior of that car looked like crap to me plus the body was ugly and small with a lower EPA fuel economy rating than my Cavalier, least I can fit in the Cavalier. Also would never fit in 7 each 2 by 6 8' long studs in that thing like I did in my Cavalier. Drop the front right and rear seat backs, cover with some towels, slide them in and close the trunk with room to spare. Can't do that with a Honda.

Was thinking Honda should hire American engineers like they did in the early 80's to come up with a decent car, not seeing any 2008 models that is even close to turning me on, maybe they would look better if I start smoking crack. Did see some new Toyota's with four foot high door panels and six inch high side windows, but the people driving them had big bulging eyeballs on the top of their heads so they could see where they were going. If I was made that way, may be interested.

FrankD. on Mon May 19, 2008 6:02 PM User is offline

Is Honda going to all aluminum motors?

I was just reading that the 2008 Civic comes with an all aluminum 1.8L motor.


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FrankD.

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