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HHR kicking my butt today

GM Tech on Mon May 28, 2012 10:21 PM User is offline

Year: 2008
Make: Chevrolet
Model: HHR

I thought that Venture was bad-- it's a cake walk compared to the Fkn HHR-- I recharge the a/c and let it sit all night-- take it to get coffee this morning- and come out it won't start--click click click---so I wait for a ride-- gather my tools and remove starter- new one in- and same result-- then I find blown 60 amp fuse -- seems HHR has a fuse between starter (and alternator) and battery---so I replace the fuse- and drive home- when it blows the fuse on way home--not by starter- but by alternator--bottom line is I have swapped batteries- cleaned that piss poor sheet metal ground in spare tire compartment- and still see 15.18 volts at fuse and 14 .10 at battery...I can only run it with fuse bypassed with jumper cable wire-- and it gets hot-- looks like I need to remove alternator and test it....Last fuse blew when I shut it off (I think).....that fuse is $5 each-- and I've blown 4 so far-- auto parts stores are running out locally---Have you ever seen one like this?



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The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

NickD on Tue May 29, 2012 9:37 AM User is offline

If Tim would post a schematic diagram of the charging system and that 60 amp fuse, could be of some help. Rare for an alternator to blow a fuse, and a 60 amp sounds too low for a typical 100+ amp alternator. One main open diode increases the alternator output voltage, with those low spikes confuses the regulator into thinking the average output voltage is too low.

Even a shorted battery cell shouldn't hurt an alternator, pulls the output voltage down and goes into a current limit mode so the effective output is lower than the full rated output.

And only a four year old vehicle with ground problems already? That usually occurs after five years, how many miles on this thing?

With a click click click, typical of a low capacity or discharged battery, first step is to jump start it to learn if its really a starter problem. Only thing that really blows fuses is some kind of electrical load short. An inductive type ammeter sure helps to find that, can borrow mine, goes up to a 1,000 amperes, and as low as 0.01 ampere resolution. Knowing what that fuse feeds can really be helpful in the guessing process.

GM Tech on Tue May 29, 2012 9:53 AM User is offline

I did try to jump start it first-- but who knew not to connect at the battery? That is always the way I was always taught.

Fuse only feeds starter in forward mode-- and alternator backfeeds through it to charge battery-- run with that fuse blown and you soon stall out--running off battery only--vehicle click click clicks- because solenoid is pulling in- but there is no battery hot at starter due to blown fuse-found this out the hard way-after changing starter in parkinglot without my DVM handy- fuse blows after jump start- and let it run 10 minutes- starter never uses that fuse when jump started...bypass that fuse while running and bypass cable (jumper cable 6 guage) gets so hot you can't touch it....pulling more than 60 amp evidently.. so now I'm bypass that 15 foot 6 guage wire to the rear of vehicle where the battery is- and see if it stops blowing the fuse....also, there is NO parasitic draw after 10 minutes--only 10 ma...so I don't suspect a short to ground-- what I do suspect is a bad connection or perhaps a bad splice in that long run of battery cable that disappears into firewall up front and reappears out from under rear deck in the rear- it evidently runs between all trim and the body base panel inside the Fkn vehicle..

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The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

Edited: Tue May 29, 2012 at 9:55 AM by GM Tech

GM Tech on Tue May 29, 2012 1:08 PM User is offline

Completely bypassing that long run of battery cable so far has had positive results- the fuse is not blowing!-- my DVM says resistance in the long wire is 1.1 ohm on the 200 scale

-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

GM Tech on Tue May 29, 2012 2:19 PM User is offline

OH -oh the wiring schematic I just got says there is no fuse to be in the circuit!!!-- Someone has moved the wires around prior to me!!!!! Now to just figure out which way is right!!!

-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

GM Tech on Tue May 29, 2012 3:57 PM User is offline

got anxious- went into town and popped the hood of another HHR-- WTF my starter/charger wire and electric power steering wires were reversed!!! No wonder that fuse blew---the EPS was not fused- hooked directly to battery wire-- and the starter/charge wire was routed through the 60 amp fuse for the EPS!! Vehicle had been like that since it was in body shop over a year ago--- I caused the issue by having the radio on for 5 hours- on auxilliary- then it must have had lots of charging to do to pop that fuse finally-- I had blown 4 fuse total....I should have followed my instincts-- that no car in its right design has the starter battery hot wired through a fuse!! Thanks again

-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

NickD on Wed May 30, 2012 5:54 AM User is offline

From what I can find on the HHM, only 60 amp fuse is for the power steering, low battery voltage would cause this fuse to blow, makes sense if motor driven.

Also stated improper jump starting will blow that fuse, somehow there is a positive battery terminal underhood. Certainly enough questions on where in the hell is the battery in this thing. Said a another terminal is next to that, that ain't ground, ground to one of the strut bolts. If you hook to that other terminal, will blow that 60 amp fuse.

But apparently someone screwed around with your vehicle, ha, already ran into that, can be nightmare.

New Cruze is entirely different, also has electric power steering, didn't like it at first, but really nice after you get use to it. Then, no real switches. practically every switch on the dash is a soft touch switch including the ignition switch that fires commands to the BCM. Kind of copying a PC, but could go one more step, show the dash on the radio screen and use a mouse to turn on or off whatever with a click. Cheaper yet and would save a bunch of wiring and soft touch switches.

MrBillPro on Fri June 01, 2012 10:30 AM User is offlineView users profile

Probably some kid or previous owner tried to wire his own thump, thump, thump, window breaking loud boom box radio, that draws enough amps to shut down a small power plant, and was clueless how to wire it, so he just wired it back like "he thought" it was.

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Don't take life seriously... Its not permanent.

Edited: Fri June 01, 2012 at 10:31 AM by MrBillPro

GM Tech on Fri June 01, 2012 1:39 PM User is offline

Actually, I find out from the owner after the fact that it was a salvage vehicle- that was in a body shop 6 months ago-- activating the a/c and hispeed cooling fans taxed the system to the point the fuse blew....what a PITA....why can't he tell me that in the first place!

-------------------------
The number one A/C diagnostic tool there is- is to know how much refrigerant is in the system- this can only be done by recovering and weighing the refrigerant!!
Just a thought.... 65% of A/C failures in my 3200 car diagnostic database (GM vehicles) are due to loss of refrigerant due to a leak......

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