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Some interesting reading for those with some extra time to kill. Pages: 12

TRB on Tue September 02, 2003 9:35 PM User is offlineView users profile

http://www.sae.org/calendar/aars/2003/presentations.htm

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JJM on Tue September 02, 2003 10:29 PM User is offline

Why in the world did I ever click on that link – all it wound up doing is making me ill, further reaffirming my belief that we are all doomed due to stupidity.

Isn't it a hoot though, while these stupid Europeans are debating ALTERNATIVE refrigerants and air conditioning systems, thousands are DYING in a heat wave. Perhaps if they simply used the EXISTING air conditioning technology already in place, more Europeans might alive today. Asinine, absolutely asinine.

If you recall from my old post “The Big Lie II,” you’ll note how I ended up my closing:

“It’s likely that almost every conceivable refrigerant will cause some kind of environmental malady in the eyes of those who are wholly against American progress and improved living standards.”

First R-12 was on their hit list, now it's R-134a, originally touted as an "environmentally friendly" refrigerant. What happened? Make no mistake about it, even if they get their wish for R-152, R-290 or even R-744, they'll still find "problems" with them. The only way these people will be satisfied is when our standard of living is well below those of third world countries. And thanks to a largely ignorant populace, they are well on their way towards succeeding.

What I find most ironic is how they’re so concerned with miniscule amounts of R-134a leakage from MVAC, yet any schlub can blast crumbs from their keyboard with a can of R-134a from staples. Again, further proof that these people are enemies of our comfortable living standards.

Now seems like a good time to reiterate my post “The Big Lie II”

Joe

JJM on Tue September 02, 2003 10:31 PM User is offline

"The great mass of people … will more easily fall victim to a big lie than to a small one."
- Mein Kampf (1925) by Adolph Hitler.

The CFC scare is a big lie (R-12 contains CFC’s), which dates back to 1970, when scientists discovered that CFC’s might harm the ozone layer. Then, in 1974 chemists at the University of California at Irvine "discovered" the ozone-depleting effects of CFC’s. The CFC scare gained momentum in 1985 when British scientists first discovered the ozone hole over Antarctica.

There is no credible scientific evidence, or even theory, documenting when hole in the ozone layer over Antarctica actually appeared. For all we know, the ozone hole could have been there for thousands of years, long before CFC’s began widespread use in the 1930’s and thereon. Since ozone is naturally produced by the sun, the ozone hole over Antarctica is more likely the result of the lack of sunlight occurring each year over this region as the Earth tilts on its axis. This fact is ignored, and the CFC’s in your hair spray and air conditioner are blamed instead.

I dare any credible scientist to answer the following question in the affirmative: If we were to put CFC production into overdrive for the next five years, and then release ALL the CFC’s into atmosphere en masse, would we be able to destroy the ozone layer?

Chlorine, the culpable element of R-12, destroys ozone molecules via a catalytic reaction (it is not consumed as it destroys the ozone). But ozone is produced by the sun at a rate of several tons per second, via UV radiation from the sun striking and dividing the oxygen (O2) molecule, and the two separate reactive oxygen atoms quickly combining with other oxygen molecules to form ozone (O3). As long as the sun puts out UV radiation at the right wavelength and there is sufficient oxygen the stratosphere, we need not worry about the ozone layer.

Ask yourself this question, if R-12 were such a voracious eater of ozone, why are so many ozone advisories issued throughout the summer?

Talk about government hypocrisy, though: a 1991 estimation from NASA showed that each shuttle launch released 75 tons (yes, tons) of chlorine into the atmosphere. This notwithstanding, the chlorine (hydrochloric acid) that spewed out in the last eruption of Mount Pinatubo was 500 times larger than the annual production of CFCs in the entire world. What about the chlorine (sodium chloride) from the evaporation of sea water loaded with salt? And the EPA is worried about the couple of pounds of Freon in your air conditioner.

Every air conditioning technician knows R-12 is heavier than air, which is why leak detection equipment is utilized BELOW the source of the leak. Honestly, does it seem plausible that R-12, being 4 to 8 times heavier than air, travels 12 to 30 miles up into the atmosphere, supposedly by "polar winds", and then remains there to attack the ozone layer? Perhaps my TIF XP1 Halogen Hawk is just plain lying to me.

The CFC ban has likely cost, We The People, untold millions in retrofitting air conditioning and refrigeration systems to the more "environmentally friendly" refrigerants, most of which are not as efficient as CFC based refrigerants. R-134a is 20% less efficient than R-12; R-134a has a Latent Heat of Vaporization (the amount of energy required to change state from vapor to a liquid) of 47.19 (Kcal/Kg @ 0o C) versus 36.43 (Kcal/Kg @ 0o C) for R-12. And since there is no "energy fairy", we must therefore burn 20% more fossil fuels in order to obtain the same level of cooling.

Perhaps most lamentable is the impact the CFC hoax has had upon the poor and elderly. Nearly all automotive air conditioning systems designed before 1994 utilize R-12. Prior to the ban, R-12 could be purchased by anyone at an auto parts or hardware store for about a $1 or $2 a pound (can). Now you need an EPA license, and it costs about $20 to $25 a pound wholesale, with some shops charging as much as $80 pound retail (some older vehicles require as much as four pounds). For the most part, air conditioning service must now performed by a professional with expensive refrigerant recovery equipment, which most poor and elderly on limited or fixed incomes cannot afford. When the air conditioning systems of older vehicles fail as a result of a minor leak, the choice is often retrofit to R-134a at a cost of up to $1,500 on some vehicles, do without air conditioning, or buy a new car – none of which are viable options. This is not right.

To make matters worse, the substitute for R-12 is R-134A, and while more ozone friendly, R-134a contributes to "greenhouse gases" hence contributing to "global warming" – oh no! Not to worry, it too is already slated to be banned, albeit in 2030. Then again, R-12 was scheduled to be banned at the end of 2000, but then Senator Al Gore, consumed by illogical and irrational environmental fears, managed to add a provision in an unrelated bill to accelerate the ban 5 years sooner to the end of 1995 (and still the majority of uninitiated Americans voted for him). It’s likely that almost every conceivable refrigerant will cause some kind of environmental malady in the eyes of those who are wholly against American progress and improved living standards.

Finally, as a matter of national interest, we simply cannot allow unelected socialist global organizations like the United Nations jeopardize our sovereignty, liberty and prosperity.

Joe

Bigchris on Wed September 03, 2003 12:13 AM User is offline

I'm due for another heart bypass job in 2008. Think I'll hold out till you get some of that R744 hose in stock Tim.

I yield the rest of my time to Nick.

NickD on Wed September 03, 2003 12:23 AM User is offline

I have mellowed a lot over the last few years. Joe will calm down too. Ha, as soon as we get things settled in the middle east, time for a war in Europe again, but this time the Germans will be on our side while we attack the French and the Scandinavian countries. The British will always be our friends, they learned not to screw with us after 1812, but the other Europeans will never learn and the Italians are too busy making love and even a transmission now and then. LOL.

MikeH on Wed September 03, 2003 8:19 AM User is offline

Hey, Joe, can I copy and send your article on to about 100 of my closest friends?

As for a war in europe, we should take out Syria, Iran, Lebanon, Yemen, Saudia Arabia and every other 2-bit dictator, muslim controlled country. If we also attacked france (lower case f) we could be sure that they would surrender within the first day or so. Then we could have all of that french wine for much, much less.

Bigchris on Wed September 03, 2003 11:58 AM User is offline

Truth be told Mike, the french lust after our California wine. If we ramped up bidet manufacturing here we'd own them.

Karl Hofmann on Wed September 03, 2003 1:04 PM User is offlineView users profile

The only mugs are those who pay over the odds for French wine because it is French and therefore supposedly better than any other wine. I think that the story of the Kings new clothes could be applied to French wine, cuisine, amour, cheese and most other things that you would care to mention, I enjoy Spanish red and German white, but the US and Austrailia both make superb wine, but neither the US or Austrailia have the "History" that the French have, this would seem to be important to those who would rather pay through nose for a bottle of Naff history than enjoy drinking a nice bottle of wine.

Nick, The Americans have NEVER beaten Britain in any war. In 1812 you were a British colony and therefore British! With the exception of a whole shed load of French who were your allies The truth is we kind of like you and feel morally responsible for you untill you develop a more adult foreign policy that doesn't involve large quantities of troops.

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

NickD on Wed September 03, 2003 1:29 PM User is offline

I like the British too, Karl, so when are you going to end your vacation and start developing some new remarkable technology?

So much easier to copy than to originate.

My youngest son just got back from Japan, fortunately WW II never happened so he was able to make many seemingly life long friends over there.

Karl Hofmann on Wed September 03, 2003 1:42 PM User is offlineView users profile

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Isn't it a hoot though, while these stupid Europeans are debating ALTERNATIVE refrigerants and air conditioning systems, thousands are DYING in a heat wave. Perhaps if they simply used the EXISTING air conditioning technology already in place, more Europeans might alive today. Asinine, absolutely asinine.


JJ the reason that these people died is that they were too tight fisted and poorly organised to buy themselves an air conditioning unit, NOT that the EC are too busy discussing alternative refrigerants.

On a Sunday afternoon folk were phoning me up asking if I could fit them air con NOW!! If I could have I'll bet that they would have paid whatever I asked. It was almost like Summer had come as a complete surprise to them.


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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

Edited: Wed September 03, 2003 at 1:43 PM by Karl Hofmann

Karl Hofmann on Wed September 03, 2003 3:05 PM User is offlineView users profile

Copied?? What?

We think that it is only right that the new guys should take a lead in developments, we have desided to take a supporting part and improve what you guys are happy to let stagnate, I'm sure that there are some Brits working in the team that is developing CO2 aircon



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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

Mitch on Wed September 03, 2003 3:17 PM User is offline

Wait a minute! I was taught that the Declaration of Independence was signed in 1776!

Maybe they teach history a little differently in the UK.

I know that the Russian history books are quite a bit different than ours.

Edited: Wed September 03, 2003 at 3:19 PM by Mitch

MikeH on Wed September 03, 2003 4:40 PM User is offline

Actually, if yu look at the bottom of the U.S. Declaration of Indepencence yu will see -

IN CONGRESS, JANUARY 18, 1777

Not all of the signers were present on July 4, 1776, when the declaration was drafted, and some of them wanted the approval of their respective colony.

NickD on Wed September 03, 2003 5:04 PM User is offline

Karl, I was under the impression that CO2 was banned because of it's global warming potential, but don't hold your breathe.

Ha, actually the British did win both the Revolutionary and the war of 1812, as long as Karl is buying the beers, I will agree to anything.

Bigchris on Wed September 03, 2003 5:05 PM User is offline

Hey! I just learned something - hooray I must be alive!

My memory is awful today but I think Karl is right. If I remember correctly we mastered the art of making Coke bubble with CO2 and said if you want it cold, add ice. The Brits said "Jolly good but hold the ice".

Now the Brits want ice made with CO2 but the EU says "Fine but if you drink a Coke and burp you've got to do it into a reclamation machine."

Is that about right?

Karl Hofmann on Thu September 04, 2003 3:06 AM User is offlineView users profile

LOL! That burp can run either way and I'm not too sure what the EU directive states about this. Do we need separate recovery machines or simply different connectors?

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

Karl Hofmann on Thu September 04, 2003 3:34 AM User is offlineView users profile

Ok, Ok guys I got it wrong, I was completely ignorent of the war in 1812 and automaticaly assumed that Nick was refering to your War Of Independance

The war of 1812 had no victors and bearing in mind that the Brits were fighting the French at the same time, it wasn't a bad result for the British.

Our history lessons do have quite a few thin patches as our modern history starts at 1066 with the invasion of William the Conqueror (French) so we have a lot more history to learn.

Nick your welcome to a beer anytime, but it will have to be warm due to an EC directive on cellar coolers

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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

NickD on Thu September 04, 2003 7:51 AM User is offline

Still can't blame the British, your King George was insane and quite irrational, but he was still king with an obsession to enslave the colonials. After he hit the dust, we became friends, and were ever since. I will bring my own cooler, if customs will pass it through.

I can drive into Canada with no problems, can you?

Bigchris on Thu September 04, 2003 11:11 AM User is offline

Karl the French are sure to object to meeexing gazzez!

Karl Hofmann on Thu September 04, 2003 6:16 PM User is offlineView users profile


I can drive into Canada with no problems, can you?



LOL We'd have to build a bloody big bridge first!!



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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

NickD on Thu September 04, 2003 7:44 PM User is offline

Chick sent me this photo of the blackout, wonder how he took it? He must have a tall step ladder.



Screw the blackout, New York loves those anyway so they can make more babies. What strikes me about this photo, is that first, my mom always told me to turn the lights off when going to bed, do we really need all those lights on at night?

But most, look at Canada north of Lake Superior, that's the left bar of the "T" of the three great lakes connected at the ends.

There ain't nothing there!

Hudson Bay has one little unaccessible town with mostly polar bears constituting the majority of the population. I was thinking of opening an AC shop there if Marvin can stand the competition. Ha, he would be the only AC shop in Canada. LOL.

There are some very nice fishing lakes north of us, but need a float plane to get in if you enjoy feeding the mosquitos. Wasn't that interested in Canada until I learned they had oil. Hmmm.

Karl Hofmann on Fri September 05, 2003 3:31 AM User is offlineView users profile

Quote
Originally posted by: Bigchris
Karl the French are sure to object to meeexing gazzez!


Ha! The French can burp and fart at the same time....At the dinner table....And thats just the ladies!!


Nick, We can visit Canada with just a passport, I guess they reason that even if we overstay we'll dash back home when Winter comes, those that the bears haven't eaten.

We visited Edmonton, Jasper, Banff and Calgary a few years ago in Winter and thoroughly enjoyed it, the people there are fantastic! When we got up in the morning we would put on the TV to watch the traffic reports from the major cities, ten cars at a set of traffic lights is a major traffic jam!!!....Marvin, you are one lucky guy!


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Never knock on deaths door... Ring the doorbell and run away, death really hates that!

NickD on Fri September 05, 2003 8:16 AM User is offline

Ha, how come you left Quebec out of your places to visit, Karl? My kids went into Canada crossing into Detroit, customs was rather tough due to this 9-11 thing that seems to be crazy. But my son was stripped searched six times coming back from Japan and he doesn't even look like an Arab. I flew to Toronto and had my baggage checked, not going into Canada, but coming back, my drivers license is all I had for an ID. Found it's just best to keep my big mouth shut and let them search. The news says something about not using profiles when conducting a search, when the lines were short, you could expect a thorough search, guess those people are bored.

But you need a passport to visit your sister land, and we don't? My biggest problem would be bringing Dok up there, need all kinds of paper work and shots.

Bigchris on Fri September 05, 2003 6:17 PM User is offline

Quote
Originally posted by: Karl Hofmann
Quote
Originally posted by: Bigchris
Karl the French are sure to object to meeexing gazzez!





Ha! The French can burp and fart at the same time....At the dinner table....And thats just the ladies!!
ROTFLMAO! You know them well I see...
But then with the liters of perfume they wear, it's just another component of the odour. Could be a bit of a problem for them if the EU ever mandates roadside leak detectors.

bohica2xo on Fri September 05, 2003 6:38 PM User is offline

Wow, look at that photo - from LA to San Diego one big light bulb!!

And they say Vegas has too many lights!



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"Among the many misdeeds of the British rule in India, history will look upon the act of depriving a whole nation of arms, as the blackest."
~ Mahatma Gandhi, Gandhi, An Autobiography, M. K. Gandhi, page 446.

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