1st Post Need Help Honda Fit A/C Issue

Friendly format provided to inquire about automotive a/c systems.
Archived Forum

Moderators: bohica2xo, Tim, JohnHere

Post Reply
larac
Posts: 4
Read the full article
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:45 am

1st Post Need Help Honda Fit A/C Issue

Post by larac »

Hello,

My 2009 Honda Fit purchased two years ago with 35k miles on the clock is experiencing A/C issues.

When I purchased the car, the a/c worked but was mediocre. So I went the local a/c guy and he ostensibly recovered existing refrigerant, evacuated system with vacuum pump and recharged system with r134a and dye. A/C worked much better first summer season with vent temps 35-40 degrees below ambient (measured with Fluke meter). At beginning of second summer season, A/C still seemed to be working OK but maybe not as good as prior summer. A/C subsequently began to fail. I noticed this first after driving car at high revs -- shifting near redline and driving hard. Not sure if this is related to issues or not. A/C then started working again but not so well. After a few days, a/c would turn on (with compressor and condenser & radiator fans) but would cut out prematurely. Finally a/c would turn on with initial start up of car but would turn off within minutes.

Thinking that I had a leak, I pulled front fascia off car to better shine my UV light (already had this in my arsenal of tools) and discovered leaks at lower condenser connections (one at receiver / dryer) and one at output line connection. See photos of florescent dye tracks. No other leaks were detected -- none on lines, none at compressor, none at ports, none anywhere else on condenser including fins and none at drip tube of evaporator or water droplets from evaporator). So I bought a can of pure r134a (no additives) and a set of yellow jacket manifold gauges/hoses.

My initial pressures at idle before adding any refrigerant were 25 / 105 psi on a 87 degree day. Raising rpm up to 2,000 resulted in an increase to 34/135. So it seemed to me that suction side might be a little low and discharge sided was very low. At shutdown, the low side and high side pressures remained more or less static -- they did not rapidly equalize. Honda service manual calls for high pressure of around 250psi at then existing air inflow temp and humidity levels.

Hoping my problem was related to low charge and willing to charge system up as a diagnostic test (i.e., without repairing leaks / replacing receiver/drier first), I then added 3 ozs of refrigerant. I used super accurate electronic lab scale that I happen to own to measure weight of the can as I added refrigerant. I added only 3 ozs because I was concerned about overcharging system. Some improvement in pressures resulted with low side of 35 psi and high side of 140 psi at idle. Raising rpms did not seem to change pressures by much. There was also some improvement in a/c function with less cycling but a/c would eventually quit after 5 minutes or so of driving car.

I've searched high and low for diagnosis based upon normal low side pressure with low high side pressure but can not find very much to point me in the right direction. Also, I wonder if those condenser connection leaks with the dye tracks represent a major or minor leak? I guess I could measure the at rest pressures of a/c system over the next week or so but changes in ambient temperatures will make that somewhat difficult.

BTW, there are no abnormal noises of any sort coming from compressor or rest of the system.

Any suggestions? Possible causes? I suppose that I could fix the leaks and replace receiver / drier and recharge system with precise amount of refrigerant called for (15 ozs for this small system) and see what happens but it seems to me that there is probably enough refrigerant in system now given adequate suction pressures and that the very low discharge pressure is meaningful.

IMG_3055.JPG
IMG_3055.JPG (91.97 KiB) Viewed 6052 times
IMG_3060.jpg
IMG_3060.jpg (91.04 KiB) Viewed 6052 times
User avatar
Tim
Site Admin
Posts: 1104
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:19 pm
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Contact:

Re: 1st Post Need Help Honda Fit A/C Issue

Post by Tim »

With these low capacity systems. Even being an ounce or two low will cause cooling issues.
------------------------------
Please support ACKITS.com for your Auto A/C Parts and Tool needs.

Help Support the Forum
User avatar
JohnHere
Preferred Member
Posts: 1197
Joined: Sun May 13, 2018 10:20 am
Location: South Carolina Upstate - USA

Re: 1st Post Need Help Honda Fit A/C Issue

Post by JohnHere »

Couple of thoughts:

Fix the leaks first.

Sounds like it could be a low-charge condition caused by the leaks, as mentioned, but also just a tired little scroll compressor (which is what I believe it has) after around 12 years despite the low mileage.

The specs that I have call for 16 ounces of R-134a and 4.5 ounces of PAG-46, although your under-hood decal might be different.
Member – MACS (Mobile Air Climate Systems Association)

Thankful for the responses you have received? Please consider making a monetary donation to this Forum.
DetroitAC
Preferred Member
Posts: 267
Joined: Mon Oct 17, 2016 10:33 am
Location: SE Michigan

Re: 1st Post Need Help Honda Fit A/C Issue

Post by DetroitAC »

You are wasting your time unless the leaks are fixed.

You have a known proper charge amount for your vehicle, that is exactly how much you need to charge with using your good scale. Most of the refrigerant mass exists as a liquid, so you can think of the charge amount as being a measurement of the liquid line and receiver internal volume plus the operating liquid in a bubbly mixture of the condenser and to a lesser degree the evaporator. The charge level on your under hood sticker is to be taken as the truth, the whole truth, so help me god.
User avatar
Cusser
Preferred Member
Posts: 846
Joined: Sun Apr 24, 2016 6:29 am

Re: 1st Post Need Help Honda Fit A/C Issue

Post by Cusser »

DetroitAC wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:10 pmYou are wasting your time unless the leaks are fixed.
Absolutely agree. Always fix first what you KNOW is bad.

DetroitAC wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:10 pm The charge level on your under hood sticker is to be taken as the truth, the whole truth, so help me god.
1. Unless you install a different hood, like I did on my 1988 Mazda B2200 truck, which now sports a B2600i hood.

2. Unless you install an aftermarket/different design evaporator, like the one I bought from ACkits in about 2000 for that Mazda truck (mine had a leak).
larac
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:45 am

Re: 1st Post Need Help Honda Fit A/C Issue

Post by larac »

Yes, I certainly will be fixing the leaks (and installing new rec/drier) before any other potential actions. And, of course, the truth is that I have no idea as to how much refrigerant is in the system now. Still, it does seem meaningful that suction side pressure is normal while discharge is very low. I do suspect that ultimately we will find a compressor-related problem. I'll be back once leaks are fixed, new rec/drier is in place and system has been recharged. Thanks in the meantime.

BTW, any issues purchasing a rec/drier from Rock Auto? I've purchased many other non-a/c items from them and am very satisfied with their service but can I trust them to send a rec/drier that has not been exposed to atmosphere, I wonder?
User avatar
bohica2xo
Preferred Member
Posts: 1170
Joined: Wed May 11, 2016 4:12 pm
Location: Las Vegas, NV

Re: 1st Post Need Help Honda Fit A/C Issue

Post by bohica2xo »

Buy one from the site sponsor, and be sure.

https://www.ackits.com/
larac
Posts: 4
Joined: Wed Jul 28, 2021 9:45 am

Re: 1st Post Need Help Honda Fit A/C Issue

Post by larac »

I checked but they don't seem to have one available for the Fit online so I'll give 'em a call.
User avatar
Tim
Site Admin
Posts: 1104
Joined: Tue Apr 12, 2016 2:19 pm
Location: Scottsdale, Arizona
Contact:

Re: 1st Post Need Help Honda Fit A/C Issue

Post by Tim »

------------------------------
Please support ACKITS.com for your Auto A/C Parts and Tool needs.

Help Support the Forum
Post Reply